Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

I try to redirect first, ask nicely second and when that inevitably doesn't work I raise my voice firmly, only when my child is doing something that could hurt him. I.e. about to touch the hot oven door or standing up on a chair. Mine is only 1.5 years old and doesn't have the skills to understand explanation yet. He understands that my voice being loud is a signal to stop.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it personally. It's nothing akin to physical discipline.

I think what we think gentle parenting is and what it should be are two different things. I had to stop myself from shouting at someone else's kid the other day, happily punching and kicking other toddlers at soft play while his mother softly whimpered at him to please, please calm down and really doing jack shit about the situation.

@Lincoln24 my 4 year old is like this too.

Well said.

I really dislike parenting labels like this. Good parents set boundaries and teach, consideration, empathy, respect and manners.

AS far as I 'm concerned there are good parents and bad parents, and that is it.

We didn't shout at or hit DD, and she has grown up into a kind and considerate adult.

I guess we must have been fairly strict because when DD created a Facebook account on her 13th birthday one of her friends was astounded that she hadn't already done so. DD replied that her parents would kill her if she had (we wouldn't).

What consequences for bad behaviour are 'gentle parenting' parents using??

I think it depends on the child.

For one of mine it would be fine she's very well behaved and an anxious child so shouting is not good for her. Talking about feelings and responsibility works well. My other one I do gentle parent most of the time but he needs a firmer hand at times because otherwise he would be feral. He has said to me he knows I love him and won't hurt him so he's safe (and can therefore not tidy up etc) he got shouted at for that. He also looses his iPad a lot. I need to interrupt his dangerous behaviour by shouting most days. He has special needs and people let him get away with too much it's teaching him to be a brat. There is a difference between meeting a child at their level and letting them rule

Usually natural or logical. It depends on the scenario. My son drew on the walls with felt pens, so I took the pens away and he helped me clean the wall. For example

I think for example if you're at a soft play and your child misbehaves, you take them straight home.

' I can see you're having trouble playing without hitting and listening today, so I will take you home'

Or ' I can see you're having trouble listening today, so I will take you down from that tree as I need to keep you safe ' ( if your kid isn't coming down from a tree or something similar ).

No I don’t - certainly not from my experience of working in a secondary school where it’s evident which children have been so-called gently parented and struggle with authority or boundaries.
Our mental health counsellors would agree - these children form much of their caseload.

This is what I perceive as permissive parenting, because it allows three incidences of the unwanted behaviour before there is a consequence. I agree that it inevitably doesn’t work, because it is teaching the child there are no consequences for the first and second time they behave that way, and that they only need to change their behaviour when there is a raised voice.

In my experience the raised voice isn’t required if the boundary is firmly but respectfully upheld the first time.

I don't know how people can get through a day.

I heard a woman yesterday negotiating with a child over a piece of cucumber his little brother had already sucked. "Of course you can have that one darling but it's a bit disgusting. Are you really sure you want that one."

It went on about 10 minutes. While there was an entire box of identical cucumber sat ready to eat.

If it had landed on the floor surely you'd just have said 'this one is dirty, it has to go in the bin, chose one of these'.

Perhaps it's not gentle parenting but this trend of overwhelming small children with choices doesn't really seem positive. Just drags things out forever.

You don't need to shout (though I admit I do on occasion. They get fair warning it will happen but if they carry on....) but firmness is essential.

I have lost count of seeing ineffectual parents trying to negotiate with children who are past the point of listening. It really isn't helpful to anyone and I admit to not knowing how they can survive a day because just listening to them drives me insane.

Gentle parenting, as you describe it, works.

The kids who are so badly behaved they're driving teachers out of schools are not being parented in this way, even if their parents are labelling it 'gentle parenting'.

Anyone can describe their philosophy as 'gentle parenting', they're not all following your definition though, there are all different variations of parenting that people label 'gentle'.

I do think that our greater understanding of child development hasn't reached the education system yet though and this does potentially cause issues for some schools in the very early years.

And older children? Teens?

It depends on the situation. In my example above where my son snatched the car, the consequence was having the car removed from him and returned to his friend, and then I taught him a better way to resolve the situation.

If he hit another child I would pick him up and remove him from the vicinity of the child he hit and explain to him ‘I won’t let you hit so we’re going to sit here for a little while until your body feels calm again’, and then when he was calm we would talk about how to deal with a similar situation better next time.

If he refused to do something that was necessary for his safety, like put on a seatbelt, I would say ‘I understand you don’t want to wear your seatbelt. You need it to be safe. I’m going to do it up for you now to keep you safe’, then I would do it up and I would soothe any crying or distress that followed while holding firm that the belt was necessary.

As a secondary teacher, I can tell you that the children with problematic behaviour aren’t the ones whose parents have listened to them and supported them through difficult situations, while holding clear boundaries (which is what gentle parenting is).

It’s the ones whose parents have been permissive and have therefore never had boundaries enforced so get the shock of their lives when school doesn’t back down. Or the ones who have been shouted at or hit their whole lives. At some point, children learn to zone out the shouting, learn that scary mum is not that scary so why bother listening to her. They then apply that logic to other adults in their life. That’s without even going into the emotional trauma they come into the classroom with of repeatedly not having had their emotional needs met.

I’m not saying shouting automatically leads to this of course - we all lose our rag sometimes! However, if shouting and fear is your default method of parenting then I do think you’re setting yourself and your children up for a whole host of future problems.

My children are too little to see if (true) gentle parenting works but I apply gentle parenting principles to my classroom management and have calm, purposeful lessons where even the usual ‘troublemakers’ settle down, so I’m a strong believer in its efficacy. I just think there’s a lot of misunderstanding around it, and a lot of confusion between gentle parenting and permissive parenting.

I don't think that not shouting at your children is gentle parenting.

Children are coming in to school who are badly behaved but in my opinion it's neglect not gentle parenting.

Parents are not saying no to their children because they can't be arsed. Easier to give them a phone or a packet of Haribo than to tell them off for jumping on the sofa so when they start school they are completely bewildered.

People are just describing parenting. The gentle parenting people are pretty out there. I have a friend who is a “gentle parent” . She believes that saying no to a child damages their development and they must always be allowed to chose their own path after having had the options and consequences explained to them. This is fully supported by all the cultish Facebook groups she’s on. That kid is now 7 and a little shit. Both his parents have had mental
health crises through exhaustion (and I suspect stress of parenting). But at least the kid is not brain damaged by being told “no”.

It depends on the behaviour, for many natural consequences, our daughter is two, so for her most things can work with natural consequence as it will be things like tipping out toy boxes etc. So if she tips out all the duplo she is clearly and calmly told if she chooses not to put it back in the box that means she will be unable to play with it, but if she does tidy it up she can play with it. So if doesn’t start putting away one of us will and then we’ll remove the box straight away, so it and its contents can’t be played with. Obviously like with any behaviour we explain why its right/wrong.

If she throws something she’s told throwing isn’t safe and that we’ll have to remove that toy from her as she could hurt herself/someone, that toy is then removed and put away so she can’t play with it.

Our sons older, so its mainly about using positive language and staying calm, punishment depends. We have boundaries and our son knows that, he also knows things like xbox, playing out, certain toys etc aren’t a given right. So he knows if he comes home late he won’t be allowed to go to the park, if he’s rude and won’t get off his xbox when told what time he needs to turn it off we’ll just remove his access to it etc. Punishment isn’t different in gentle parent, how you give it and how you explain the behaviour etc is.

The same.

In PP's example, the toddler couldn't use pens responsibly so they were taken away.

If a teen can't use their phone responsibly, it's taken away.

It's the natural/logical outcome wherever possible.

It should also be the case that a teen who has been parented gently (rather than with fear) is easier to manage as a teen anyway. One of the reasons parents lose control of their teens is because they're losing their power over them, the teens aren't as scared as the toddlers!

Just sounds like everyday parenting to me

Children need clear consistent boundaries and structures. That can be achieved without even shouting or hitting. My kids were always told off for bad behaviour (hitting siblings etc) and we had the naughty step but never shouted. There was also plenty of space to talk over things after they calmed down. They seem to have grown up fine.

I was very gentle with DC1, explaining, offering alternatives, while still holding firm boundaries, discussing his feelings etc. By the time I got to DC3 I quite frankly didn’t have time to do that with three different kids and three different sets of reasons why not.

If necessary I tell them what to do and they do it, I have no idea what I would do if they didn’t because we’ve never got that far. I don’t shout, and rarely need to punish. I think we all know where we stand and what the expectations of behaviour are.
They are all fabulous kids, I love spending time with them and I’m so proud of them all.

If you're a good parent it probably is your everyday parenting.

Not so for all children unfortunately!

The approach I have seen is that after explaining that people would be sad if child scribbled on their things, the child could decide if they cared and carry in. It’s madness.

Children 100% need boundaries - not to provide these is very bad parenting as children feel frightened by too much power - they need the adults around them to be in control so they can feel safe.

How those boundaries are monitored/enforced/policed is a matter for individual parents to decide. But the important thing is that if one method is not working then another must be tried (short of cruelty/smacking/emotional put-downs of course) because the prime consideration is making sure those boundaries are there for the child's well-being.

As the OP points out, the basic principle is to understand what an individual child is capable of at each stage of their development - and this will vary for every child. False expectations cause so much trouble in parenting - it is no good expecting a 2 year old to have the understanding of a 6 year old - or indeed of an adult as some parents seem to expect! So the enforcement of boundaries will be different for each child at each stage.

Some of the gentle parenting has false expectations of children - a lengthy explanation of why it is wrong to do something is inappropriate for a child who cannot yet understand such concepts - a firm No and a distraction tactic would be more sensible. I have watched parents gently trying to explain something to a child who is too young to understand - which is pretty pointless!

Underlying all this is a respect for the child and who they really are at a particular point in their development.

So not gentle parenting.