Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

Absolutely agree that by 5 that sort of reaction should be incredibly rare. Have you spoken to school - what’s their behaviour like there? Have they got any suggestions of what you could put in place?
cajoling and negotiations aren’t the right way to go about it, I agree.

Well I think there must be a miscommunication somewhere because I've never said that I didnt parent my children or that I just sat by and watched them encounter catastrophe after catastrophe as they found their own way through life. Nor have I suggested anyone do that either.

We had very clear rules and very clear boundaries and expectations that were reiterated and enforced. The reasons were made clear, and the (natural) consequences were made clear. They understood that, if they didn't follow the instruction, they were choosing the (natural) consequence.

But I didn't shout. I didn't impose arbitrary punishments. I listened to them and I treated with with empathy and respect.

You might disagree with that approach and that is fine but it worked for us.

When my kids have been this young I take them to the toilet with me. The person I was replying to admitted to not watching their child which is why everything was moved out of reach in her mum's house so that she didnt have to watch her. I have never had to move things as my kids understand you don't touch things that don't belong to them it's basic respect.

When I say name calling I mean shaming them with certain names such as 'you are always...' Probably the best way to put it is labelling the whole child as being bad for what was one bad choice. Some people see no problem with labelling their child as always bratty, always naughty, always selfish, they never ever share, they never ever listen.

I am a naturally loud person, as is my family. There is a very big difference between being loud and shouting, including the level, the intention, the tone.

Treating a child with empathy and kindness... What is the problem with that when any adult would want to be treated the same?

"I didn't impose arbitrary punishments. I listened to them and I treated with with empathy and respect."
This is ordinary decent parenting, not gentle parenting. Although I think some of the examples given do not demonstrate empathy and respect.

It wasn't disapproval. There was no disapproval. It was an explanation.

She knew it was going to happen. It wasn't done after threats "if you don't put your shoes on, I'll tell your teacher..." That would be using shame.

Oh and I didn't say ," she won't put on her shoes". I said "she didn't have her shoes on yet." The former would have been 'shaming' and seeling disapproval the latter was a factual explanation of our current position.

You are using your lack of understanding to criticise my approach.

@BookArt Thank you but I do understand the different forms name calling and labelling can take. Anyone reasonably intelligent knows that is not okay. But you equated name calling with shouting.

Of course not every gentle parent is going to be the exact same in every situation.
Of course it’s going to be adapted to fit your child and your family.
add to that the fact that parents are human too- sometimes we are tired, over stimulated, stressed, not well.
we are not just parenting but living the rest of our full busy lives too.
it is an approach to parenting. Not a rule book or some kind of cult you have to sign a contract in blood to be a part of.
it’s a set of values and ideas and how they are implemented will vary

If there is no shaming involved, what is the purpose of saying you will phone your DCs teacher?

No I said two behaviours that I do not agree with from an adult, an adult who should be able to manage their emotions when they expect a child to. I said name calling and shouting. Name calling is negative whether whispered or shouted.

But even if you explain the natural consequence- natural consequences are such that they are not always intelligible to a child. For example, if you don’t do your homework , you won’t do well at school, you won’t get a good job when you grow up etc. how/ why would a small child care/ make sense of that. It’s far too long term and abstract. But it’s your job as a parent to protect them from that consequence and encourage/ support them to work hard. So you invent shorter term, more tangible rewards / consequences. This is just one example but you get the point. Saying just leave it to “natural consequences” is impractical.

@BookArt As I said before, I think your raised voice is my shouting. It is semantics. No one should be losing it with children.

Should it be incredibly rare? 😫😭. See I have no idea what I’m doing wrong.

Apparently she’s an angel at school 🤦🏼‍♀️.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have implied that your parenting (overall) is wishy washy. Of course there's no way anyone could think that based on a few mumsnet comments. But that one anecdote you shared, I do think that strategy in that one instance is wishy washy.

And you may Google that a 5yo who occasionally hits is "normal" in the sense not a huge cause for concern, but it is at least along the tail of the bell curve. Most 5yos don't do that. If it were seen in public, people would be shocked.

And I have "shared in detail" my strategy. Shocked disapproval, works very effectively whenever I have had to use it. Because most children are very motivated by approval and disapproval, from toddlers upwards

Agree. I’ve been taking the approach recently of trying to ignore and ordering my DH to do the same. I’m sure that’s not allowed according to gentle parenting though

I think by 5 having large meltdowns should be very infrequent.
pushing boundaries however is completely normal!
you’re not doing anything wrong; parenting is a minefield ♥️ I’d try make sure you are on the same page as her dad as far as dealing with it. If she behaves well at school the generally I’d say she has the ability to self regulate so doesn’t need to be having these tantrums. I’d explicitly chat to her about them when she is in a calm mood and discuss it properly.
and don’t be afraid to use external validation to help then through this phase. The odd sticker chart for a few weeks won’t damage Them!
and remember - we are their safe space. They feel safe to let big emotions out around us. The fact they are well behaved at school and only let it out at home is a good sign. x

I also think as parents we can encourage anxiety by validating too much children's fears. I actually learned this first with a puppy pre kids.

I think this is where we get too caught up in it.
you are following the values of gentle parenting.
if an aspect of it isn’t working try something different for a little while. If you feel they know how to self regulate then explain in advance that the tantrums and behaviours being shown aren’t acceptable (be clear exactly what isn’t acceptable) and remind them how they can appropriately let out their emotions instead. explain you will be ignoring them when they behave like that but are right here for when they can behave in such and such a way.
then heavy praising when they do deal with situations that would normal cause a tantrum in a better way.

@BubblesNSnuggles the way you constantly say anything that people post is gentle parenting simply makes it seem like it is good parenting, except with a singy songy wishy washy voice at times. Is that really the only difference between gentle parenting and ordinary decent parenting?

Where has the sing song voice come from?
you absolutely need a firm tone.
down on their level, eye contact, stern face and firm tone. There is no doubt that when my child does something wrong that it is the wrong thing.

@Nadeed So... We have then agreed in my first post.

Thats a reasonable question.

i called because we didn't like to be late. Because she didn't like to be late so, if we were going to be late, we always rang the school to explain. And yes because she didn't think there'd he any conseqince ro her actions. She was trying to control the situation. And she was 5.

But it wasn't done to shame her or in a way that would cause her shame intentionally. She wasn't mocked or derided.

But she did also need to know there was a consequence of not getting ready for school and to see what that consequnce was.

So, What were my options? What were the alternatives?

Well, the alternative could have been her getting into school late and having to walk in late without any explanation, with the expectation that she might have been asked why she was late and have to give a reason herself and she wouldn't have liked that.

Or I could have shouted at her and threatened her with some after school punishment to be imposed 6 hours later so that she would put her shoes on. But that wouldn't have worked because she wpuld have shouted back. And 6 hours later, she'd have forgotten the shoe incident and been upset all over again about the injustice of a punishment when it was over and done with.

Or I could have wrestled with her to get her shoes on myself. She might have fought back and shouted/screamed. She would have resisted. I would have got more agitated and, yes, maybe become angry. I could have shouted, she could have become upset. Not a great start to the school.day.

Or I could have just left her playing until she felt like going into school herself. Which might have been, when? 9am? 10? In time for PE after lunch?

There are some aspects of it I don't necessarily agree with but I will defend it when people assume it's the same as no parenting or the only alternative is to 'shout at your kids' or you raise workshy, self centred individuals with no resilience because that's a complete misrepresentation of it.

As others have said, I want to be spoken to with respect and kindness and I want people to have empathy for others.

I don't want to be shouted at, made to feel ashamed or embarrassed if I make a mistake. And I'm assuming most other people don't either. Those people also include children.

This is all helpful thank you . I think the discussing things in advance is a particularly good one as she is quite smart and does respond well to stuff like that

Every. Single, Person I have ever met who says they are a gentle parent does the sing songy voice. Every one.
I do firm tone down to their level. That is just called traditional parenting. Its been around for generations.