Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

@Nadeed the singing songs voice for small children is called Motherese and has been done for generations, Ms Rachel seems to be making a very lucrative career from it.

Thank you for your apology.

firstly- I can’t recall it ever happening it public.

secondly- this is just siblings. Examples: they are playing together, she snatches a toy from him, he instead of politely asking for it back tries to grab it back and when she moves he grabs her or hits her. When they are playing she might want to join in and he doesn’t want her to. When she won’t leave him alone he might pushed her. Often two minutes later they are giggling together.

lots of my life is refereeing currently. Both of my children know how to play with others and often play together beautifully. But they are siblings and they often don’t. Equally sometimes she will hit/ push/ scratch him. And yes gentle parenting during this phase is hard and exhausting but it works and the benefits are huge. There are consequences to behaviour for both of them.

as previously requested, if you have a better way of parenting 2 siblings the same age as my children then I’d sincerely be interested to hear your methods. Because nobody said gentle parenting was easy! I am exhausted naming feelings and offering calm down areas but screaming at them to just stop fighting probably wouldn’t work. 🤷‍♀️ and generally my kids are great kids. I can take them anywhere, they get glowing reports from school And nursery settings, I took them swimming on my own the other day at a spa and was told by a member of the public how fantastic my children were. So yeah occasionally my children hurt each other as siblings do - but I’m not going too far wrong.

However, I’m always open to ideas.

I do agree with you on this.

Children need to know it's ok to feel anxious sometimes but that's not the same as this is something you should feel anxious about.

That's when you validate their feelings eg I can see you are worried about this. Do you want to tell me why? But reassure them you love them and have faith in them and all they need to do is try their best so that they give it a go anyway.

That's very different to "Don't he silly, there's nothing to worry about."

Most people, whether they're angry, upset, scared or whatever only want to know that someone has heard and understood that.

If you let a child back out of something because they feel anxious, they'll never learn resilience.

The people who feel the need to announce that they're gentle parents are often permissive parents/bad parents hiding behind a phrase they don't really understand/can't implement.

I know. It is a good voice for children to learn language. I did it naturally as do most parents. It is not the voice to use when children do something wrong.

My dgd mum gentle parents and my dgd is an absolute horror.

although I think she veers on the side of permissive parenting tbh. If she doesn’t want to get ready for school she doesn’t .. and thus is always late.

she does have the patience of a saint with her but will negotiate and plead and give in.

shes a fantastic mum in other ways and I’d never say anything but it’s not great to see.

when she comes to mine dgd will try and push and get her own way. It doesn’t work with me and she hates it.

i was kind of between the two with my four, gentle versus authoritarian, I’d still validate their feelings and respect their boundaries but I still wouldn’t give in.!they’ve turned out alright although dd3 14 pushes her luck

I agree with that too!

You said you learnt stuff pre children.with a puppy. This reminds me of some friends who bought a small dog. Didn't train it and rehomed it when it (inevitably) bit their child.

They then replaced it with a much bigger dog that they also didn't train and it would jump up and try to bite everyone. They started puppy training but it was "too hard" and they gave up.

They would tell it not to jump.up.and not to bite in that Motherese sing song voice. Totally ineffectual. In the end, the children's friends stopped visiting because of the biting and they eventually rehomed that dog too.

It probably won't surprise you to learn that their children aren't very well-behaved or well disciplined either.

she does have the patience of a saint with her but will negotiate and plead and give in.

If you're pleading with your child, you've lost.

For those who 'gentle parent' and have 'firm boundaries' and never have to raise their voice, you must have fairly harsh consequences. Either that or very placid children. There has to be one or the other, I do not believe all these children just do as they're told all the time but aren't placid and obedient by nature.

So why is shouting so much more damaging to children than consequences? I'm not arguing I'm genuinely interested. I understand why consequences are more beneficial, but why is shouting supposedly so damaging, yet a consequence isn't?

@Glitterbomb123 I think it is semantics. By shouting they mean a parent losing it. So a parent having an adult temper tantrum, screaming and shouting.

Shouting - STOP IT NOW - is not going to traumatise a child.

You mentioned you're a teacher and as it happens, so am I, also 12y (finished training in 2012 so maybe we were in the same cohort).

The no1 thing they always say in classroom behaviour management, don't they, is having high expectations. I think when it comes down to it, your parenting and mine probably look very similar but that's the main difference, how high our expectations are. I just can't see a 5yo boy hitting a 2yo girl* as meeting my expectations, that's the main/only point where we actually differ.

Your "stern tone" and my "disapproval" probably sound similar and only differ in the level of surprise/shock. We're probably using similar sentences, although I don't ever use the word "kind". [Because I don't think not-hitting is "kind". It's just, base level acceptable behaviour. Helping someone carry bags is kind.] The only difference is that you see hitting as normal behaviour and probably your kids perceive that. Whereas I really don't.

(*Or, indeed, hitting anyone, but at least it'd be better if he picked on someone his own size!)

What do you mean by 'work'? How would you know if gentle parenting was working, compared to authoritarian style?

I never shout at, hit, or frighten my child into behaving, having grown up in a shouty household with 'rule by fear'. My DD is happy and confident, doing well at school, and we have a brilliant relationship. In that sense, I think my approach to parenting is 'working'.

As a child, I was quiet and got very good grades always, but I was anxious and miserable a lot of the time due to my mum's authoritarian style. We do not have a good relationship. So, if you're measuring parenting success by child's academic success, then that approach 'worked', but if you measure on the child's happiness and their relationship with their parent, then you'd consider that it failed.

I understand. For example I struggle getting my oldest ready for school. He's very very strong willed, thinks he's always right, likes things on his terms etc. a harsh consequence would be dragging him to school in his pjs. Or taking him in late and explaining to his teacher he's late because he wouldn't get ready. That seems much more traumatising than shouting WILL YOU JUST GET READY NOW OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE SPENDING ALL EVENING IN YOUR BEDROOM. Or something similar. Yet the shouting is deemed abusive than the natural consequence...

Could you link to any studies that show
*We know, without any doubt, that authoritative parenting yields the best results"?
Not an expert on parenting styles, I see disadvantages to all, just curious.

@Glitterbomb123 we have similar approaches and thoughts about this.

Actually, I said nothing was moved out of reach. I moved things out of reach in my own house. And yes, I took my eyes of her for a few minutes. I'm glad that your children understood the concept of respect and property at the age of 2, they must be geniuses. Congratulations on watching them 24/7 and never looking the other way whilst you made a cup of tea or had a conversation with an adult. Your trophy is in the post.

a harsh consequence would be dragging him to school in his pjs. Or taking him in late and explaining to his teacher he's late because he wouldn't get ready. That seems much more traumatising than shouting WILL YOU JUST GET READY NOW OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE SPENDING ALL EVENING IN YOUR BEDROOM. Or something similar. Yet the shouting is deemed abusive than the natural consequence...

100% - this is what I’ve started to think. Sometimes what most closely resembles the “natural consequence” seems a hella lot crueller and often disproportionate compared to a more traditional “no nonsense” approach

So for the third time - how do you respond when your children fall out? what would you do differently?

I can assure you my expectations are more than high enough thank you. Once again, an insult to suggest that clearly my expectations must be lower than yours.
No, neither of them hitting anyone meets my expectations which is why I am teaching them not to. My 2 - 3 next month - year old is a typical toddler and often wants her own way. This can often be hard for a 5 year old to deal with in a play situation and when they are repeatedly together he is bound to get frustrated sometimes. Occasionally he doesn’t deal with this in the right way.

also please be mindful that all children are different. My first child is very calm and laid back and I thought I had parenting nailed. Then my youngest arrived and is a wild child and I realised that actually it is not that some parents are better than others (though of course we know from our jobs - yes, same cohort- that some parents don’t actually parent at all!) but that all children are different and some are harder in certain ways than others.

You must be like me and not have high enough expectations of your child 🙄

This article has some links, but it's agreed by all major experts that a firm but democratic style- i.e. authoritative- is the best. I don't think anyone could argue that permissive, authoritarian or neglectful have any advantages that authoritative does not.

https://www.parents.com/parenting/better-parenting/style/authoritative-parenting-the-pros-and-cons-according-to-a-child-psychologist/#:~:text=While%20there's%20no%20perfect%20way,takes%20kids'%20feelings%20into%20account.

Well, you're in good company as my child- bar the gravy boat incident- is very well-behaved, and well-loved wherever she goes. She starts school in September and her new teacher made a point of coming over to tell me how polite and well-behaved she had been at her settling session. I won't be taking up shouting regularly any time soon.

The one time I did shout was when she stood on my bed and put the cord for the blind around her neck, I shouted for her to take it off and never touch it again. The fact that I hadn't ever shouted before was enough to impress upon her that it was really serious and she never went near it again, and we got rid of the blinds eventually.

I'd rather save occasional shouting for when it really matters.

And I certainly will not be helicoptering after her at all times as different seems to think is preferable.

Sounds very much like my children.

maybe we are doing a pretty good job after all 😊 x

What are you talking about this is basic parenting where talking about the bare minimum. You watch small children and teach them from babies not to touch things that aren't theirs. I don't know why your getting mad and talking about trophies this is what parenting is. You was in somebody else's home and you said you wasn't watching your child and they found a gravy boat and smashed it you then expected them to baby proof their home Instead of you actually watching your child and teaching them to not touch things that don't belong to them.

Do you also tell family members to babyproof their homes so that you don't have to watch your child or teach them not to touch other people's things

We were living there temporarily.

I'm not really interested in engaging further with you, I'm glad you feel like you did such a perfect job of parenting but I am a human and sometimes I took my eyes of my toddler. If you can't relate to that then well done to you, we have nothing to discuss.

I never shouted at her and now she's old enough to understand she doesn't go around breaking things.