Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

What explaining to them that If they do not get dressed they would have to be taken in their pyjamas?

I’ve never taken them in their pyjamas as they’ve always decided they wouldn’t like that so have got dressed? I need to leave the house by a certain time, as do they.

i am not going to stand and argue with them. They have been told in five minutes they need to get dressed. They have been then told at the correct time that it is time to get dressed. Help is available if they feel they need it and their clothes laid out ready for them. They have then been asked again and reminded that we need to leave for school at a certain time. They have been given adequate time to begin getting dressed. At this point it is a firm ‘it is time to get dressed. If you do not get dressed then you will have to go to school like that in your pyjamas. What would you like to do?’

The example of phoning the teacher "my daughter is late because she won't put on her shoes" is exactly the same, also using public shame (ie the disapproval of the teacher). The pp who gave this anecdote didn't see that's why it worked

@GreyCarpet I think your solutions can work in some cases, but it is over simplistic. Kids do not want to put socks and shoes on because they want to stay home and play. They do not want to get dressed because they do not like wearing the school uniform. They hate leaving mummy and want to stay home and play with their younger siblings. Do you never want to not go to work?

@BubblesNSnuggles We HAVE TO GO. GET DRESSED NOW. I WILL NOT TELL YOU AGAIN.

This is my point - that is what gentle parenting is!

im not making him fear a consequence but explaining to him why we don’t hurt other people. Im also not making him feel ashamed or shaming him - im not saying ‘what a horrible thing to do to make your sister hurt!’
simpky explaining that if he is unkind with his body he will hurt people and it’s not kind. He wouldn’t like if somebody did it to him and we don’t do it to other people.

And then if they don’t. Then what?

@BubblesNSnuggles Okay I will help you get dressed. But I have never reached that point.
I rarely shout at my children, so when I do they know they have pushed me too far.

I agree it is wishy washy. That is why pp's 5yo hasn't stopped hitting his 2yo sister yet. But the only reason why it works even a bit is because of the (accidental?) disapproval. The child's desire for approval and fear of disapproval is the only driver.

"Being kind" is far too abstract a theoretical concept to try and use without any emotional underpinning.

"Being kind" only works when the child understands "being kind = my mum's pleased" and "Being unkind = my mum's displeased, I feel contrite". [Or other parent, or teacher, grandparent etc]

My cousins were gentle parented (aunt and uncle very ahead of the times).
They both have struggled with anxiety but are in successful careers and have a beautiful relationship with their parents.

My sister and I were not gentle parented.
Both have struggled with anxiety.
Both unemployed or didn't go to higher education.
Both struggle with our relationship with our mum and I went NC with my dad.

I think at the end of the day, it works and I was/am incredibly jealous of my cousins.

It doesn't prevent anxiety or mental health issues, but you will likely have children that want to be around you and who feel supported to be successful.

And then proceed to chase then around the house whilst they avoid getting dressed? Force arms into a shirt whilst they pull away from you? How far does it go?
we could take this to extremes.

Well this is exactly the problem isn’t it? This is why gentle parenting is impractical. Small children often don’t have the capacity to foresee and understand natural consequences- hence they need to be parented!!

Natural consequences may be subtle , long term, they may even be catastrophic!! If children had the ability to understand the natural consequences of all their actions (which after all also often requires experience / sophistication in perception/ understanding ) we wouldn’t be needing to raise them.

If you sing smilingly "be kind! Gentle hands!" That is confusing to a child because they can't work out if they're being praised or if it's disapproval. "I'm being told to stop hitting, in words, but not in a cross or displeased or shocked way, so maybe... it's not that bad that I hit...? It's just a fun game?" That's what they're thinking

@BubblesNSnuggles I already said I have never had to do that.

What would your solution be? Genuine question.

Because, at the moment, you're contradicting but not offering an alternative.

Because if you think that shouting at children and punishing them in some way is going to stop them from hitting, you're very wrong.

Otherwise, it wouldn't be the same children day in, day out and and week in, week out who are are in trouble for it in schools, missing their breaktime, having their parents called in etc.

Can you point to a single poster who has said this is the way to approach it?

Because I've missed it if there was one.

@GreyCarpet First off all making young children feel valued, loved and cared for. Neglected children can hit through jealousy and anger.
Secondly saying to child do not hit, that is wrong, it hurts. Pick them up, explain what they did wrong and get them to say sorry to the child they hit.

There has been at least one who has said it's important not to express any disapproval.

And I've seen it happen in real life. Too many times

Sorry could you just explain in detail your parenting method for your two young children with a 2.5 year age gap and exactly how you have managed to ensure that neither of them ever hurt the other? Thank you in advance.

I have not anywhere on this thread criticised anyone’s parenting so to read that apparently my 5 year old occasionally hits my 2 year old because of my wishy washy parenting is insulting.

I suggest you read up on what gentle parenting is. I am always being told how well behaved my children are and whilst I am by no means perfect, I put every ounce of energy I have into ensuring my children are parented well.

and of course my early years and teaching degree plus 12 years of behaviour management experience is also all wrong.

I’m all up for a debate and sharing opinions and thoughts but making personal digs at somebody isn’t fair and is hurtful.

if anybody would like links for research and evidence backing up any of the points I’ve made please do ask. I’d love to have some of the other points on this thread supported with evidence.

Ah you must be one of those perfect parents who never needs to pee or leave the room for a second and whose little angels never would open a cupboard out of curiosity. Of course we wouldn’t let them ransack Granny’s house. But moving an expensive vase out of reach because accidents can happen is also an option. It’s not dismissive or permissive to remove things you know could be an issue

And all parents who care about their parenting style tend to be loving a caring parents. It is wrong to compare their children with the children of alcoholics, drug users, with domestic violence at home, parents with severe mental issues, and abusive parents. Of course these children are either going to be the worst behaved or withdrawn.
What we are comparing is different styles of parenting between loving and caring parents.

I do a mix. Lots of hugs, kisses, I love yous. Lots of positive play and interaction.

But I will also expect certain behaviour. We don't do tantrums and we definitely don't allow rudeness. I've shouted when they don't listen but not to intimidate.

I don't think a little fear is a bad thing. Families should have structure and hierarchy. Parents should be respected in order to keep everyone alive.

I think, as long as a child feels love, care, knows their parents want the best for them and knows to treat others with respect, it doesn't really matter how you do it.

They don’t need to be punished for not wanting to leave - their feelings are valid

their feelings are valid, but their behaviour is not. You cannot go through life having a tantrum every time you don’t get your way.

A two year old, of course they don’t know any better, you just hug/ comfort them. A five year old? It’s getting more problematic to be honest. This is what I’m struggling with - my five year old
has the worst tantrums every time I say no or do something she doesn’t like/ want for any reason. I have no problem holding the boundary/ not giving in, but that doesn’t feel enough. If she screams and shouts the place down and disturbs everyone else, throws herself about, etc, it feels like she is getting to the age that she needs to understand that’s not ok and that’s not going to be tolerated. There isn’t necessarily a natural consequence other than me getting mightily pissed off!! So what do I do? My partner is always trying to reason/ cajole/ empathise, as far as I can tell it just feeds the behaviour/ makes it worse as she’s getting the attention she wants.

@Tandora sounds like she is getting attention for it from your DH. He needs to stop doing this - easier said than achieved I know!
I found standing at a distance and ignoring DCs having tantrums worked best. And when it was over sitting down with them and saying clearly that tantrums were not acceptable. They need to stop doing it.

Thanks to those who replied to my post.

Interestingly, those saying that they’d tend to the hurt child first - you’re going against every MN thread I’ve read on what gentle parenting is. The posters all say that a child that hits must be taken away, cuddled, and had their big feelings worked through, and any delay to this process would mean the child feeling abandoned and internalising their feelings. The child that had been hit was then to be given an apology if the child that hit them agreed.

That’s why I didn’t anticipate replies - I’ve never had any before because the parents posting would’ve had to admit to doing what my mum did, i.e. ignoring me when my sister walloped me, because she had big feelings.

I do think it’s funny that not even gentle parents can agree with one another about how it’s supposed to work, especially as so many seem to think that getting it wrong is akin to parents who’re screaming at and hitting their kids.

I am not a perfect parent. But I do prefer punishments or consequences that are short, and then we can all move on.