F*cking hate the f*cking 11+ system

[StressyStressHead]

DS1 passed and is at a grammar. DS2 is due to sit it in September and prep is not going well.

DS1 had a tutor in yr 5 just for an hour a week and was very enthusiastic as he enjoys that sort of thing. DS2 didn’t want a tutor (fine - i always said I would never force anything on either child) so has been doing prep with me. Just an hour a week. Sometimes sessions go well - often, they don’t. He often has meltdowns if he gets something wrong, and wants to give up and it is so bloody hard to deal with.

ImI don’t care whether my kids go to a grammar or not but the issue is, the non-grammars in our area are not great so if you want a chance at a good school, you’ve no choice but to do the test.

Without sounding like an arse, for those who are bound to make comments like “children shouldn’t need tutoring to pass the test” “why would you put your child under that much pressure”, please understand that:

a) despite what the local authorities will tell you, the 11+ tests kids on lots of things they have NOT learnt in school so to expect them to sit it with no prep is unrealistic

b) competition is ridiculous - kids from miles outside our area sit the test and apply for our local grammars. They have MASSIVE amounts of tutoring which pushes up the pass mark (there’s no set pass mark, it’s based on how the cohort performs that year)

c) believe me, I am doing my utmost not to pressure him but he needs to do some practice - he’s worried all his friends will pass and go to grammar without him - and he’s probably right as so many of them are doing summer 11+ courses and hours of tuition

d) some friends who don’t live in a grammar area have said to me that if he doesn’t want to do the prep, just to tell him fine, that’s his decision but it’s down to him if he ends up at a rubbish school - which seems bloody harsh for a 10 year old!!

I keep telling him this does not define him, it simply gives him a wider choice of schools but I know he’ll feel a failure if he doesn’t pass.

Not sure what my AIBU is, just need to vent.

Tutoring that ends in meltdowns is counter productive.

Your options are - radically change your tutoring style/strategy so it's more fun and less frustrating.

Or give up on this option and either have a crack at the 11+ without tutoring, or don't, and check out non selective independent school

Maybe another way would be to accept that he may need to go to another school and then pay for tutors later on there. In fact, maybe there he can be top of the class rather than feeling inferior at the grammar.

10yo is too young to have any control over things like this. It's up to you.

I don't think many parents have what it takes to tutor their kids successfully. Success also depends on the child.

I think you should oblige your son to have tutoring, and tell him that if he doesn't up his game he's seriously harming his chances of going to the same school as his friends. Simple.

Every child is different. You're lucky your first child was amenable. It was the opposite for us (different system but similar situation). Nightmare.

I’m trying everything I can think of to make it more fun/interesting/less stressy. But i’m not a teacher! And kids rarely respond well to their parents in these situations.

I can’t afford a private school.

All I want is for him to go to a decent school and be happy😞

Why are you pushing your child to the point of meltdown?

Maybe they aren't right for grammar?

Yeah, it’s a stupid system. All schools should be good. It’s wrong to just accept the local comp is crap. It doesn’t have to be.

If all kids went into a local comprehensive system those schools would improve because:

• the brainy kids would be at them
• the pushy parents would be there
• The good teachers would have to teach in them.

Kids should not be made to feel like failures at 11. They should be able to develop at their own rate. And all have good opportunities.

I hope your child is happy and achieves wherever they end up.

I don’t think forcing him to have a tutor would work. Like you say @masomenos we all know our own kids and he just wouldn’t go for it. How do you force a child to do something like that?

And yes, I would LOVE for him to go to a lovely comp where he would likely be top of the class - but the comps round here are really not great….

I would revisit the idea of a tutor. It's a really particular skill set, especially being able to tailor the session style to the individual student.

Sessions ending in meltdowns will do more harm than good.

The massive upside you are ignoring is that your child has the opportunity to go to an excellent school!

The secondary schools around here don't have great results. Most of the older children of friends seems depressed/ unmotivated. I've had friends move hours away to get better options.

Id take the year of struggle. Id try a tutor and be clear you want someone who can help them as they are sensitive to failure.

I passed the 11+ under the donkeys years old system (years ago,) and went to a grammar school. I don’t remember any stress - it was normal then.

My grandchildren had tutors, years later, to get them into grammar schools - but they were all ok with it, and no problems.

If a child is getting upset, it may be that they can’t cope.

Could you consider moving to an area with better comps?

A friend tutored her children into passing the 11+ and went on at me for years how they were at grammar school and she'd never send her girls to a normal comprehensive.
I never pushed my children I encouraged and when there were meltdowns I understood this wasn't the path for them.
Ten years later mine on paper and in terms of launching are doing significantly better and have much better prospects than hers who went to grammar school.
If your child isn't coping with the prep and is having meltdowns it's time to accept that a comprehensive will be the best place for him and with a good attitude and supportive home he'll do just fine

@Flapearedknave I’m not pushing him to meltdown. He wants to do the test - but the whole thing is stressful for any kid. And like I said in my OP, if you live in an 11+ region, you have very little choice but to “play the game” if you want your kids to have a crack at going to a good school. @ElfAndSafetyBored puts it well.

And yes, many of us parents are stuck between the choice of trying to get them into a grammar where they might find the work hard or sending them to an unsatisfactory comp.

I am the age where every kid in junior school took the 11 plus with no tutoring and it was based on what our teachers had taught us, i passed with flying colours went to the grammar school and got bullied by one boy and his cohort for the whole time i was there yes the school work was easy for me but the overall experience was horrible i wish i hadnt been bright at age 10 and had gone to the secondary girls school instead, the rich kids from the local prep were a world away from us council housed kids and didnt they let you know, out of school i got called a grammar school snob couldnt win either way

What do you mean when you say you don't think forcing him to have a tutor will work? In my mind, it would be a question of sitting the child down and telling him baldly "as matters stand, you're not at a good enough level to get through the 11+, which means you won't get into blah school. If you want to be there, you're going to have to work on [maths and English - whatever], and you're going to have to practice the test papers the way the examiners want you to answer them. This is what I've been trying to do with you, but clearly it's not working. We're going to get Mrs Hughes to come in twice a week at 4pm on Tuesdays and Fridays, and she's going to sit with you. She'll give you homework which you will do on Sunday mornings and Thursday mornings. This will go on for 5 weeks. Do the best you can, and we'll see where we are after that."

What would he say if you said something like that? Would he just refuse to comply (by what, staying in his room or something?)? If so, then this isn't right for him, and you'll need to work on adjusting his expectations rather than his academic achievements.

This isn't the be all and end all for a child. It's a great start - but there are many starts at many points in a child's life. And, they're all just starts.

The thing about 'not great' schools is that individual children can have very great experiences there. You just don't know when they're 10 how things will pan out. If the grammar schools are massively over-subscribed, there will be plenty of bright kids who don't get in, so plenty in the 'not great' schools.

If you ds is reluctantly engaging in an hour of tutoring a week and other children are having masses, then it may be wise to adjust any views that the only way he could possible go to a decent school and be happy is to go to the grammar.

With respect - some PPs seem to think I’m against comps - I’m definitely not! I’m saying the comps in our area are not good.

The test is in September so no, moving is not an option and I wouldn’t uproot DS1 anyway.

@Boomer55 yes, I did it years ago too and it wasn’t stressful because there was no such thing as the internet, so no one could swat up on what was in the test and therefore there was no tutoring - it was a much truer test of ability then.

The problem is, OP, is that your older DS has already got a place at a grammar school. You've now no choice other than to do everything else to ensure your younger DS has the same opportunities.

To be clear, I think the 11+ system is elitist, and stinks, and I cannot believe that some areas still have them. However, you potentially have a situation where your two sons will now feel that they have both had different opportunities.

It's a shit system if you are in a pure grammar area but some kids aren't cut out for it. We are borderline counties with grammar so had other options, my kids weren't up to the grammar / super selective but I can also assure you my husband who is a teacher could not teach our children. Lockdown proved that.

Comp with tutoring may be the better way.

Come to northern ireland. The 11plus (transfer test) is in full force and brings out the crazy parents. You have tonpixk primary carefully otherwise children who choose not to sit it get left in a corner 'reading' a book (usually the sen kids who actually need more support)

The system isn't terrible I just wish there were more hybrid schools like Lagan College in Belfast who have a grammar stream and also general all ability entry

Yanbu, I think a much fairer system would be a standard pass mark and then a random ballot for everyone over it. It would completely erode the need for tutoring. You could even bring SATs forward to the end of year 5 (testing curriculum taught to that point) and just say everyone that gets greater dept in maths and one of the English’s goes in the ballot.

Yes, I’m trying to give him the same opportunities as his brother. Believe me, if there was a comp around here that I liked, I would be a million times less worried. I should also say that I don’t want him to go to a single sex school - nor does he - which narrows the options further.

So the dc that don't get into a grammar achieve nothing? He's nit grammar material but that doesn't mean he can't do well at the school he does go to. Most dc don't have much choice in regard to which schools they go to but those who are willing to work to a certain standard ( and they don't have to be try hards either) will pass the necessary gcses and go onto A levels/ college/apprenticeships and do well there.

Could he join (paid) a friends tutoring session?

the prep books are relatively straightforward - would he do it on his own and just ask for marking or help with what he got wrong?

@RedHelenB no! I didn’t say that kids who don’t go to a grammar achieve nothing! In our local comps, I’m worried about things like quality of teaching, high turnover of staff, student progress, bullying and discipline which unfortunately seem to be issues at some of our local comps.