F*cking hate the f*cking 11+ system

[StressyStressHead]

DS1 passed and is at a grammar. DS2 is due to sit it in September and prep is not going well.

DS1 had a tutor in yr 5 just for an hour a week and was very enthusiastic as he enjoys that sort of thing. DS2 didn’t want a tutor (fine - i always said I would never force anything on either child) so has been doing prep with me. Just an hour a week. Sometimes sessions go well - often, they don’t. He often has meltdowns if he gets something wrong, and wants to give up and it is so bloody hard to deal with.

ImI don’t care whether my kids go to a grammar or not but the issue is, the non-grammars in our area are not great so if you want a chance at a good school, you’ve no choice but to do the test.

Without sounding like an arse, for those who are bound to make comments like “children shouldn’t need tutoring to pass the test” “why would you put your child under that much pressure”, please understand that:

a) despite what the local authorities will tell you, the 11+ tests kids on lots of things they have NOT learnt in school so to expect them to sit it with no prep is unrealistic

b) competition is ridiculous - kids from miles outside our area sit the test and apply for our local grammars. They have MASSIVE amounts of tutoring which pushes up the pass mark (there’s no set pass mark, it’s based on how the cohort performs that year)

c) believe me, I am doing my utmost not to pressure him but he needs to do some practice - he’s worried all his friends will pass and go to grammar without him - and he’s probably right as so many of them are doing summer 11+ courses and hours of tuition

d) some friends who don’t live in a grammar area have said to me that if he doesn’t want to do the prep, just to tell him fine, that’s his decision but it’s down to him if he ends up at a rubbish school - which seems bloody harsh for a 10 year old!!

I keep telling him this does not define him, it simply gives him a wider choice of schools but I know he’ll feel a failure if he doesn’t pass.

Not sure what my AIBU is, just need to vent.

You only have to hear from people mainly now in their 60s who have had a successful career to know the impact that the 11+ had on them. If they failed the 11+ they will be very quick to tell you that they succeeded despite this, it scars them for life.

I am all for streaming, sets, groups whatever you call teaching by ability, but not in separate schools and decided at one particular age.

Op, you need to think of a plan B.
Your ds may not ‘pass’ the 11+ . If he doesn’t you would need to consider other options.
He’s probably having meltdowns because he’s probably worried that he will get a subpar education if he doesn’t pass the 11+.
Could he travel outside your area to attend school?

We made sure we weren't in a grammar school area when we moved just pre-kids. I'm a teacher in a state comp and I teach both extremely able and far less able children who are brilliantly served by the system in our area. Can you move to a new area?

11 plus seems to me a damaging system in lots of ways. I'm so sad for the 10 year olds who might come on in leaps and bounds over the next few years but who feel like failures at such an early stage in their development.

Thanks @LottieMary - to be honest, I think if he joined a friend’s session, it might knock his confidence as they’ve all done so much more prep than him up to this point. We have the test books and when he’s in a good mood, he gets on with them - but when he comes up against something he’s struggling with, all the negativity comes out.

I think it's too late to get a tutor now a month before the first exam. All the tutors will be booked up and doing extra summer sessions with their existing pupils.

You are where you are. Make the best of it, let him have a go and if he doesn't pass but is bright enough put him in for the 12+ next year.

There's always movers between schools in Y7 - chances are he'd get a place if bright enough, and the 12+ exam is easier to pass as you're not against hundreds of other kids, you just have to meet a certain standard.

This idea that if the bright kids go to poor schools it brings the levels up is just shit.
I was a kid that was put in the bottom stream. I later found out when my parents eventually spoke to the teacher about moving me away from the school that it was policy - and that there were three of us. I can tell you we did not "bring the other kids along". They did not want to hear that we understood long division or who was who in Hamlet. They bullied us to shit. It was brutal. Books stolen, desks trashed and bins or bottles emptied into them, homework defaced, jeered at, ostracised, pushed and shoved, humiliated. The only option was to misbehave to gain approval - get sent out, get detention, cheek the teachers...
After the first year we moved forms - all of us - but the damage had been done, we were bullied relentlessly and not one of us stayed to do A-levels. (All went to an FE college).
And not many parents want to sacrifice their own children for "the greater good".

@lampzade - the only way he’d get into a school outside our area is if it was private school and I can’t afford that. Plus I wouldn’t want my child travelling miles - some of DS1’s friend’s have an hour’s journey to get to his school and I think it’s madness.

For what it’s worth, I didn’t pass the 11+, went to a good comp and have a degree from a top university so please believe there is no snobbery here!

That’s good advice @DoctorMartin

That’s awful @AndThatsItReally - sad to read that

My dd was 8 marks off passing the 11+. Her primary school offered to appeal to grammars on her behalf, but she then got it in her head she didn't want to go there.

Instead shes at a local comp which doesnt have the best reputation, and was marked as "requires improvement" at last years Ofsted inspection. I admit I had a panic when school allocations came out.

However, shes absolutely thriving. The school is far less academic pressure cooker than the local grammars, and because dd is well behaved and bright shes being selected for all the reward trips, University scholarship programmes, academic enrichment activities, etc. She's got a lovely group of friends, teachers who think she's capable of getting 7s 8s and 9s in all of her gcses, and she is just loving being a teenager.

So please don't stress too much about the potential of your ds being sent to the local failing comp - there is a real possibility that his academic ability will still shine through once hes there.

Thank you - it's was not uncommon then.... perhaps less so now.

OP - my eldest is very bright but had a complete meltdown and refused to do the 11+ prep books.
We just decided that it wasn't worth the stress and stopped all prep about 4 weeks before the test.
He didn't pass & went to the local high school, which had a mixed reputation.

He was separated from all his primary school friends and struggled at first. He's now exceeding in all areas & has a new group of friends & recently told me that he's pleased he didn't go to grammar.

You know your child best, but I'm not sure that it's ever worth butting heads over.

I don’t think its true to say that pre-internet no-one knew what was on the test. I sat my 11 plus more than 5 decades ago and we had book of Progress Papers for Maths and Reasoning and English which we did st school every week. Types of reasoning questions were studied and we did papers under test conditions.
Some people were also tutored.

It's summer now so a perfect time to find short summer courses that prep for the exams or offer a top up of maths or English. In not sure if they are everywhere however towns do hsve them we are in London and its littered with them. My sisters children all attended then and really benefited.

My son was like yours!
At this point in time I resorted to paying him 5p for every correct answer on every paper he did!
And oh my how his marks improved! I’m not say it’s right, but it definitely motivated my boy for the last 8 weeks.
I don’t know what area you’re in and what sort of scores you’re looking at, but once I realised just how financially orientated he was we said it didn’t matter whatsoever whether he got into a grammar, but we’d give him £1. for each mark he got in the actual test. Well he worked hard, and did well.

Op, what will you do if he doesn’t pass the 11+. ?
You cannot afford to go private, you don’t want him commuting for an hour ( understandably ).

Do you have any evidence that he is in the whatever % needed to pass the 11 plus?

@DragonScales that’s really encouraging, thank you.

@Pottedpalm there was no prep whatsoever at my school! And you had to be selected by the school to do it - only 6 of us did!

@Pinkypinkyplonk that’s great - it’s about finding what works for your child, isn’t it? We are giving him an incentive - after he sits the test (but before he gets the result), he gets £100, which is what we did with his brother. That’s a reward for his work towards it and for giving it a go. I find with him, rewarding his efforts is more motivating.

Where I live the comp isn't great, requires improvement according to Ofsted, recently taken over by a MAT, vocal parents don't 'like' the new head, 20 teachers left this summer, 37 the summer before, maths classes of 60 pupils. Some parents who fancy trying for grammar start paid tutoring as early as yr4. We have decided we'll only consider grammar is kids are 'exceeding expectations' in school report. Eldest isn't, youngest is. Which is going to be a bit a bit tricky!

Re the op, can you maybe find a tutor for a one off session who would then give you an honest opinion on whether your DC stands any chance of passing? If not then you could save the stress of your practice sessions. If so then can they guide you on what to target.

@SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress how would I get that evidence? And my whole point is, I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place - go to grammar where he might struggle or go to a comp that’s not very good.

My view- yes, the 11+ system is awful. However you live where you live and you have one child in that system.
By your own admission, lots of children from outside the area come in for the test, push up the marks and take places at the grammar school.
So they must be a lot of local children who narrowly miss out and go on to the local secondary schools.
Plus you say you just want your child to be happy and in a good school - that’s pretty much what all parents want.
So perhaps the best school for this child is not the grammar school but one of the local secondary schools. With other children just like him. Whose parents also want their child to be happy.
If the style of teaching at the grammar school would leave him stressed snd needing additional support then step away now and look at the local options.
Grammar schools don’t suit all bright children. There are other options.

Can I be pedantic and say that non-grammars in ordinary (not super-selective) grammar areas are secondary moderns, not 'comps'; if their too stream has been creamed off, they're not comprehensives.

Arriving here with 2/4 yr olds, though I grew up in a GS area and went to one in '73, 🤪 We deliberately avoided that area but settled in the neighbouring county which is 💯 comp. Mine went to the best performing comp in the county.

It should be possible to educate kids of all abilities at the same school if the school is big enough, you stream, and you don't have too many kids with unsupported 'issues' wrecking lessons.

I feel your pain, OP.

What are his school reports saying. Is meeting/exceeding expectations?

I completely agree with you @StressyStressHead & would pin this post to the top of the education board if I could.

The 11+ is divisive and in areas where it prevails the other schools do not achieve well (unsurprisingly given all the ‘top set’ children that would be in a true comp are in another school!)

It disadvantages children with spiky profiles as they are less likely to perform well overall in the test. Ditto late academic bloomers.

It advantages affluent families (even from out of area) who can afford tutoring.

No wonder this outmoded system was removed from most of the country, just a shame for you @StressyStressHead that it’s still in your area.

It’s probably ruined many 10 year olds summer holiday & that of their parents over the years! Good luck to you & your son.

I have 2 kids: Eldest enter in a grammar school without even trying, second one... well, I have to use A LOT of encouragement for him to do some prep for the exam. No tutors.
He may not pass but he is a good, happy kid. He WILL BE ok, there are good kids coming out of every school in the country.

Avoid using the kind of soul destroying language you used for the header of this post in front of them, raise him to be confident young man and that will be 1,000 better prep to life that any school. Confidence is the most important tool he needs under this belt. (I work in a highly selective school and see lots of really talented kids with zero confidence. They truly struggle during exams' season). Good luck.