F*cking hate the f*cking 11+ system

[StressyStressHead]

DS1 passed and is at a grammar. DS2 is due to sit it in September and prep is not going well.

DS1 had a tutor in yr 5 just for an hour a week and was very enthusiastic as he enjoys that sort of thing. DS2 didn’t want a tutor (fine - i always said I would never force anything on either child) so has been doing prep with me. Just an hour a week. Sometimes sessions go well - often, they don’t. He often has meltdowns if he gets something wrong, and wants to give up and it is so bloody hard to deal with.

ImI don’t care whether my kids go to a grammar or not but the issue is, the non-grammars in our area are not great so if you want a chance at a good school, you’ve no choice but to do the test.

Without sounding like an arse, for those who are bound to make comments like “children shouldn’t need tutoring to pass the test” “why would you put your child under that much pressure”, please understand that:

a) despite what the local authorities will tell you, the 11+ tests kids on lots of things they have NOT learnt in school so to expect them to sit it with no prep is unrealistic

b) competition is ridiculous - kids from miles outside our area sit the test and apply for our local grammars. They have MASSIVE amounts of tutoring which pushes up the pass mark (there’s no set pass mark, it’s based on how the cohort performs that year)

c) believe me, I am doing my utmost not to pressure him but he needs to do some practice - he’s worried all his friends will pass and go to grammar without him - and he’s probably right as so many of them are doing summer 11+ courses and hours of tuition

d) some friends who don’t live in a grammar area have said to me that if he doesn’t want to do the prep, just to tell him fine, that’s his decision but it’s down to him if he ends up at a rubbish school - which seems bloody harsh for a 10 year old!!

I keep telling him this does not define him, it simply gives him a wider choice of schools but I know he’ll feel a failure if he doesn’t pass.

Not sure what my AIBU is, just need to vent.

I went to Grammar school back in the 70s when tutoring would have been unheard of. I've always thought they were a good idea and have always been in favour, but reading this thread has made me realise just how much pressure 10/11 year olds are put under.

No wonder so many children have anxiety. Grammar schools need to be abolished and I never thought I'd hear myself say that.

Op, I am in a similar position. Eldest at grammar school. Sibling however, a different story. Meltdowns and resistance in spite of saying they want to give the 11+ test a go. It's not looking hopeful. I'm reaching acceptance that another path will be taken and that dc's are different (when in actual fact they are similar). It's extremely frustrating. At 10, they don't realise the full implications of their choices. However, I know children who have done very well from attending the local comp. I just hope dc2 thrives there.

England is insania

I think your mistake was no tutor yr 5. If you did it for eldest. Even if he didn’t sit 11+ an hour a week going over maths, grammar etc is helpful. Lots of 11 plus prep is beneficial anyway eg reading classics for vocab.
With a few weeks to go if he is going to sit exam I’d concentrate on doing practice tests. He will improve and speed up with practice which should boost confidence.
We have one grammar in area but the comprehensives are outstanding or good. In catchment a child just needs to pass 75%. Parents are generally sensible and don’t put children in if they will struggle - a top table child will usually pass. But only 2/3 of places fill from catchment - other 1/3 fill from out of catchment highest mark takes places - over 90% needed. The pressure on those children is high lots tutor for years and the comps in those areas are poor.
Lots move into catchment at junior school age. Lots of new builds. It’s very popular area with families - having a grammar in town is a big selling point.

I agree OP. The grammar/secondary modern system is very unfair. There should be comprehensives only.

It’s not unusual for families to have children at different schools - younger won’t sit exam just because eldest did. Grammar also has a sixth form with big intake so lots transfer at 16 to it as there’s no other school that goes to 18.

What elfanddafetybored said

I understand he's 10, but the simple fact is that he is not up to standard with your help, and if he actually wants to apply and have a change of acceptance, the way you're doing it has to change. He is old enough to understand that, so it's either a tutor, or he will not have any chance of passing, and will go to a different school than his friends. I would explain that to him, and that if he still,doesn't want a tutor, you guys need to start looking at what comps he would like to go to, to make the best choice for him as he will be attending them, not the grammar

No, it won't necessarily improve the school because the brainy kids would be disrupted by the kids who don't want to work so the brainy kids would do less well.

You’re not wrong. The grammar system is shit. Proper comprehensives are better for everyone.

How can good kids possibly thrive at bad schools when there will be so many kids who don't want to learn and who will disrupt and bully the good kids.

Honestly op. You need to get him a tutor and tell him he has to suck it up. For a whole host of reasons. If you find the right one I'm sure he'll be secretly relieved.

Because actual proper comps don’t have so many bad kids that this happens. Very few get to grammar. Are you happy to accept second best for everyone else?

You find that in the top sets at comprehensives there is little disruption because all those pupils want to learn.

But is every subject taught in sets?

I wish I had the option of an 11+. All of my children are exceeding expectations. The choices here are private (can't afford), single sex church schools of which there are loads (not religious), one good comp, loads of awful comps. Obviously most people go down the religious school route or try to get into the one hugely oversubscribed good comp. I'd love a shot at getting my children into a grammar school.

In your situation, it's too close to the exam to make a difference now unfortunately. I don't have any advice but wish you and your son luck :)

No of couse not.

We should have grammar school for kids who are academic and excellent technical schools for kids who are practical.

I can bet you then that a lot of parents would prefer their kids to go to a technical schools rather than a grammar because the teaching would set them up for a practical career.

The grammar school would be for the kids who are good at passing exams in traditional subjects such as maths, englis, history, sciences etc and they would study them up to A level or degree level.

The technical schools would give a basic all round education in maths, english, history, science etc but would concentrate on practical skills such as computing, techical design, bricklaying, carpentry etc.

There would be not reason why people couldn't swap between the 2 types of schools as they got older and their talents changed.

We are failing all our kids in a one-size fits all comprehensive system.

I am totally impractical, so there is no way I could have gone to the techical school and there are lots of people like me.

But there are so many practical people who need a practical education.

Just get him a tutor. What you're down now isn't working.

Deciding whether someone is academic or technical at 11 is fucking madness.

Not it isn't. And anyway, they could swap between schools if their talents changed. It would not be fixed.

But you can usually tell by 11 which kids will be academic and which will practical.

Of course it is. I’ve taught kids whose penny dropped much later than that. And. No, you can’t change later if you have different curricula.
Grammar schools are bad for pretty much everyone looked at all round.

IN A GRAMMAR SCHOOL AREA THE NON GRAMMAR IS A SECONDARY MODERN, NOT A COMPREHENSIVE.

You are strongly encouraged to use those names because it hides the reality that the clever kids have been swept off to an academically better school.

Don't fall for it.

Non-grammars are secondary moderns.

Obfuscating about it hides that grammars can select out, as well as in; most of the teachers are degree level in their subject; most of the kids are MC with far fewer behavioural issues; and they'll spend their school careers being overt or covertly reminded they're the educational elite.

💯 they aren't.

I went to a GS in '73, when every kid sat the 11+. My GS was socially quite mixed; council house and titled (really!). And, interestingly, quite a few girls in the 6th form from the local girls (properly run, streamed) SM!

But now, my old GS (okay, South Wilts, Salisbury) is ringed by prep schools, tutors, sharp elbowed MC parents.

Back in the nineties the mixed Grammar school headmaster regularly told pupils “you are the crème de le crème, the top 30%” while the single sex Secondary Modern schools down the road encouraged their pupils to go into Secretarial or building jobs at 16. A tiny handful from year groups of 100+ were accepted into to the grammar school sixth form. All based on pass or fail of a tricky exam at the age of ten. Never mind if that ten year old child had a bad day, were immature for their age, or god forbid had an SEN.

Life determining. It’s cruel, frankly.