F*cking hate the f*cking 11+ system

[StressyStressHead]

DS1 passed and is at a grammar. DS2 is due to sit it in September and prep is not going well.

DS1 had a tutor in yr 5 just for an hour a week and was very enthusiastic as he enjoys that sort of thing. DS2 didn’t want a tutor (fine - i always said I would never force anything on either child) so has been doing prep with me. Just an hour a week. Sometimes sessions go well - often, they don’t. He often has meltdowns if he gets something wrong, and wants to give up and it is so bloody hard to deal with.

ImI don’t care whether my kids go to a grammar or not but the issue is, the non-grammars in our area are not great so if you want a chance at a good school, you’ve no choice but to do the test.

Without sounding like an arse, for those who are bound to make comments like “children shouldn’t need tutoring to pass the test” “why would you put your child under that much pressure”, please understand that:

a) despite what the local authorities will tell you, the 11+ tests kids on lots of things they have NOT learnt in school so to expect them to sit it with no prep is unrealistic

b) competition is ridiculous - kids from miles outside our area sit the test and apply for our local grammars. They have MASSIVE amounts of tutoring which pushes up the pass mark (there’s no set pass mark, it’s based on how the cohort performs that year)

c) believe me, I am doing my utmost not to pressure him but he needs to do some practice - he’s worried all his friends will pass and go to grammar without him - and he’s probably right as so many of them are doing summer 11+ courses and hours of tuition

d) some friends who don’t live in a grammar area have said to me that if he doesn’t want to do the prep, just to tell him fine, that’s his decision but it’s down to him if he ends up at a rubbish school - which seems bloody harsh for a 10 year old!!

I keep telling him this does not define him, it simply gives him a wider choice of schools but I know he’ll feel a failure if he doesn’t pass.

Not sure what my AIBU is, just need to vent.

We have 2 dc

1 got into free grammar that is highly competitive because it is free (coaches provide private parent arranged transport from an area near to a fee paying grammar!). They did this without tutoring.... and it was the shittest experience ever. I had so many issues with the school - crap SEN, crap safeguarding, crap pastoral - our dc plummeted and by time it became apparent it was GCSE time smd we couldnt match up exam boards / subjects with high schools that slso had places.

Dc2 missed pages of the test so never got in, and is in in a standard comp and fine.

Find the best comp around you and visit. It might not be as bad as you think. Don't tell your son the comp is awful.

Thank you so much @Sunshineonararainydayyy

@chocolatemousse3 god, no, of course I don’t speak like this in front of him!!!

Grammar schools should be abolished, I hate the system too but not because my child even with paid tutoring doesn't look likely to pass the entrance exams.

I would definitely try to do more than 1 hour a week. Maybe 1/2 hour per day would be more manageable? Are you working through workbooks like the Bond ones? Mock tests are always quite helpful, I find. Good luck!

The issue with the non-grammars is that where GSs tend to take child 80-100%; often take 15-79%, assuming the 1-14% are in special provision.

These are crude figures!

I am using raw %ages because the 11+ does.

15-79 are going to need a much wider range of strategies and teaching methods which, ironically, they're often worse placed to provide. Also- MC parents are more likely and able to tutor or use Preps. So the GS has the added advantage of more MC, school-ready kids with engaged, able parents.

Also, the GS can select in- and out. 2 girls from mine (120) were persuaded to leave for SM and it was made clear to us they could do that!

…and of course, I’ve not expressed my views to him about the comps being awful!!

Have you considered moving? You couldn’t pay me to live an area which still has this system, luckily most don’t.

I thought it was unkind and thoughtless of that poster to even suggest you might!

11 seems too young to write someone off academically. Some people improve over time and end up coming out with good results.

I seriously doubt I would have passed, unless of course I'd had done intensive tutoring!

YANBU. l live in a Grammar school area. The other schools, if you don't pass the 11plus are not "comps" but are what used to be known as " secondary moderns".(why do they get called comprehensives when they are not).
Just down the road is another county where there is no 11plus and a proper (good) comprehensive school . No stress.
I see the tutoring that goes on here and the stress the whole system brings for both parents and children at that age and l hate the system too OP...
But often the children who do not pass end up doing just as well as those who did. Someone should do a survey a few years after they've all left and see what they are all doing, perhaps there has been one?
Children should not think of themselves as failures at 10years old and be separated from their friends that passed.
You have my sympathy. Best wishes to both of your children

Accept that he won't go to a grammar then because the competitive hard work doesn't stop once he gets in, the pressure ramps up surrounded by high achieving kids with tiger mums. He is having a huge confidence crisis trying to fit a square peg into a circle, he just isn't like his brother and he knows of the comparison, children clock on very early on. Your boy is best served at a mediocre school with side supplement of extra tutoring. Not everyone is cut out for grammar and it's not even so much about raw or academic intelligence. The aptitude to learn in a goal driven context and enjoying academic competition and rivalry is the stuff of hell for some children, clever as they might be.

Am I right in assuming that you’ve visited the local comprehensive schools and found them unsatisfactory?

And this is why grammars shouldn’t exist. Grammars existence degrades the quality of the nearby comprehensives. It’s been demonstrated time and time again.

As PPs have said, use your money to buy near a good comp. All the ‘principled’ anti-selection or private parents with enough money do this.

And not only can you then can brag about your commitment to the comprehensive system, but your house will go up in value. Double bubble!

@StressyStressHead what county do you live in - there may be comps / high schools that have improved but haven't had OFSTED yet.

Your second child does not sound cut out for grammar, and forcing him to be is just going to cause unnecessary trauma.

Out the other side of this now, so my perspective would be...
It's a rubbish system, but if you live in a grammar school area it's what you have and you can choose to participate or not. We did.
Primary schools don't in the main teaching for the 11+. So you have to do something to fill the gaps.
It's a myth that heavily tutored kids struggle. So do, some don't.
Grammars aren't perfect - there's still bullying and drugs and poor behaviour.
Although I would say in our area, much less so than the local comp.
It was worth it in the end for DD as she's come out of it with good grades, nice friends and an excellent work ethic.
Tutoring your own kids is incredibly hard. I'd look for a tutor or maybe sign up for some online stuff. Bond was highly rated when DD was preparing.
With regards to the OP, being the next sibling after your already 'successful' sibling adds a lot of pressure..we had 3 apply and all got in. DSD was the middle child and was really stressed about comparison to her older brother.

I had one pass and go to grammar. My second one just missed by a few points - I appealed and got them in. If you’re really prepared at an appeal you’ve got a much better chance. I started working on it very early in case.

Stick at him try and get him professional help.
At the same time, keep a close eye on DS1 at the grammar school. Do make sure he gets the best out of that school. Unfortunately so many don't and seem to fade when it comes to exam time.
Tell him that our Prime Minister passed the 11+ to a free grammar school, so he could be Prime Minister one day too.

our son had some post-Covid “catching up” to do for exams at that age and we found Atom online learning really good. He found it fun and we were able to monitor how he was doing without being at his side all the time. If you don’t have anything like this going already it might be worth a look.

@StressyStressHead

I am an 11+ tutor. There are very, very few parents who can successfully tutor their own children. This is because you and your DS have a parent and child relationship, not a tutor and student one.

I know you have said he is resistant to formal tutoring, but perhaps with some gentle encouragement (bribery?) for the first session, he may find he actually enjoys it. I often have students who are reluctant to have lessons, but once they realise their perception isn’t reality, they really enjoy their weekly sessions. Many of my students actually continue beyond the 11+!

Good luck OP, I know it is a really stressful time.

How is your DS at school? If he's not working at greater depth and doesn't enjoy academic work, he will probably be miserable.

I totally understand how frustrating it is, I've been there, twice! Always worrying they aren't at the standard (what resources are you using? Some are much harder than the actual test) They passed very well without tutors but I was under the impression they would scrape in because some resources were so hard.

I wouldn’t have given him an option on the tutoring, something along the lines of ‘your brother was tutored and now you will be too’. Can you appoint a tutor asap? I’d defend this to him as ‘I want to give you both the same opportunities’. He’s 10, so not really at peak decision making age. If your local grammars are like ours, they will be super heavily competed for this year, lots of parents are now purely considering state options - because of the VAT on private school fees.

What is the GCSE pass rate at the not so good comps compared to the grammar school. What you quite often find is that the top set at comps are the equivalent of the bottom set at grammar school.