Clip-on tie at secondary school

[LongStoryLong]

Hi all, my first time in AIBU 😬 so you know, have at it!

My thing is this: my DC is going into Y7 at a large comprehensive secondary school in our town. It’s a grammar area, so all the children took the 11+ and most will have failed it, which is why they’re not going to the grammar school down the road (I think this is important context).

We went uniform shopping the other day, and I was dismayed to find that it’s ONLY possible to buy a clip-on tie for this school- real ties are not made.

AIBU on several counts really:

1. how common is this? Does anyone else have secondary DC at a school where ONLY clip-on ties are available?

2. I find this demeaning- like they’re saying to the kids, you didn’t make the grade, here, have this baby tie. Is that my prejudice talking?

3. I don’t know how it works in the town, but I worry that this will be used as a way of othering our kids by the grammar kids. Sure, it’s mean, but it’s a physical manifestation of their otherness, and I don’t see why that’s desirable.

FYI, we’ll be new to the school, so I’m not going to kick up a fuss (yet?!) but I just want others’ views so I can temper my own really.

Thank you all!

@LongStoryLong As a matter of interest, how 'massive' is the school? Bigger schools can offer more opportunities and more flexibility in the timetable.

Both my DDs have coordination issues, they would have been helped by clip on ties. Much less 'othering' for the whole school to have them than for them to be an option for those who can't cope with proper ones

20 years ago my high school didn’t have clip on ties and “peanutting” (ie yanking someone’s tie as hard as possible to make the knot impossible to do) was an every day occurrence. Dragging people by their tie and making it hard to breathe were not quite every day but not uncommon. It was all rite of passage type stuff.

The school I teach in are moving to clip on ties. The main reason being that it creates consistency with tie length. This last year we've had a combination of the two ties in school. The year 7s had the new clip on ties so they all had ties the same length whereas year 8-11 had the older version which had to be tied. One of my students wore their tie about 2cm long. It was a fashion statement. They were told how long it needed to be by using indicators in the tie pattern.

I also saw student and his friends were messing around and one of them ended up with his tie so tight it was cutting off his air supply. His tie had to be cut off urgently (please note that this was the first time I had seen this in 20 years of teaching). On the whole students are sensible with their ties whichever kind.

However, the year 7 parents have found themselves buying new ties multiple times this year: the clips kept breaking. It was the same in my old school. Personally I prefer the ones that have to be tied.

My DC is in primary and has to wear a tie which is elasticated. I've had to replace this multiple times too however for young children I think it makes sense to have elasticated.

I'd be a bit concerned that it's a rough school so this had to be implemented.
Mine went to a south London secondary with normal ties, never heard of clip on ones at secondary. Mine had elastic ones in reception!

Are you thinking that the grammar school kids will be picking on the clip-on tie kids in a different school? Will they be meeting regularly in situations where they are wearing uniform?
While it is possible, I'd be more worried on a day to day level of my kids being picked on in their own school, so if everyone is clip on, then no problem.
Would you be concerned about kids with coordination issues having a different tie to others in the school?

My local bog standard comp have 'real' ties. Never really thought about it.

It’s only no issue if your children have a peer group that isn’t focused on what you wear. Pupils I know skived school on non uniform days. Boys in particular got bullied if their clothes weren’t a certain sports brand.
Uniforms are often cheaper and a leveller.

My children have clip on ties. This is because a child used their school tie to commit suicide about 10 years ago.

Pretty pointless IMO. Either you need a real tie for the real world, and it’s a necessary life skill (clue: you don't, it’s not), or ties are redundant.

We had clip-on ties as an option at my First school (so reception to year 4) and from then on they were real. I never had a clip on one. Even as a 7 year old I knew it was stupid and no one wears ties 😂

I don’t know anyone who wears ties for work. Weddings and events yes, but not work.

It’s nine form entry.

This is a bit like counselling, you guys, I’m so grateful to you (even you who have been a TINY bit mean!) I’m just having a small cry, because of course it’s hardly at all about the fucking tie, that’s just the latest thing.

DC has ADHD and we’re (I’m -it’s all on me) increasingly thinking she may be autistic. We moved here so the DC would go to the grammar, but that clearly wasn’t right for this one. Our back up is a smaller girls school in the next town but we probably can’t afford that now. So we chose this school because she struggles socially and I thought with loads of different kids with varied interests she’d be more likely to find her tribe, than in the small, rarified atmosphere of a single sex school.

Basically I need to hold my nerve and stand by my decision (which I made at least a year ago) and not let shit like the tie throw me off again…

It’s normal here!

Statistically children are more likely to be bullied while wearing their own clothes apposed to a school uniform. I don’t think kids from the other school are going to find out about the clip on ties then come and bully the other schools kids. My DD had a proper tie for the past 4 years but have just been taken over by an academy and now they use clip on ties. It’s so they all looks smart, no loose knots and all ties same length (as kids we always used to make our ties about 4 inch long lol)

I did a massive eye roll when by DD started secondary 7 years ago and it was a clip on tie. I wore a normal tie at 4. I will still occasionally mutter about the "yoof of today" in relation to this but it is all in jest.

OP this isn't about the tie, it is about the grammar school (though I'm a bit unclear as your OP says it is down the road and the other that it is a different county). The fact that going to the comp is seen as a failure (not just the OP, but generally where there are grammars) is more of an issue than the tie.

I agree with a pp though, clip on ties are all the same, when I was at school there was a period where you did the tie the opposite way round so the thing bit was on the front. It must have been annoying for the teachers (who if I recall correctly didn't do anything as long as it was mainly hidden by the jumper.

They are safer and my kid chooses one because they cant be bothered to tie one each morning when they get to school. Its really a non issue.

I deliberately didn't choose the only local primary with ties. They were elastic but my God, what a stupid idea for 4 year olds.

My youngest school moved to clipping only a few years ago. Mainly to prevent messing with the tie length and for "safety" reasons, which I read as stupid teenagers pulling each other about by the tie.

Nothing to do with babying or presuming they can't do a tie.

Clip on ties. I didn't know they were still being made!

They are, however seriously naff and shouldn't be worn unless there is really no alternative!

Most schools have clip on ties, my dd's grammar school did.
Real ties are too easy to pull tight and potentially strangle the wearer.

My son’s school has clip on ties. I thought it was a bit ridiculous. But I suppose length wise they all look the same and can’t do what we did and make the ties tiny. They are deemed old enough for a real tie in year 9. There are no grammar schools here (wales) but some high schools have clip on ties, some no ties as they were polo shirts and some real ties. The kids don’t care or notice

My DDs were at a 9 form entry comp (non grammar atea so a true comp). The other comp in town was 11. They didn't feel massive.

The first year they only had lessons with 2 other tutor groups. The next they were split 4&5 with different combinations. Year nine was in halves dependent on mini options, Year 10&11 core subjects were in 3 streams, but options were across all the year

I worked in a school with clip-on ties. It was really about making sure the knots didn’t become ridiculously large and the ties only an inch in length, not about strangulation! Tbh the biggest pain with them is how easily they come off. A lot of kids would lose them on buses etc. My tip is buy a few, you’ll probably need spares.

You don't know that that is the reason. It may simply be because the school thinks it's smarter.

If you don't want to send your child into that environment, you can opt for home schooling.

So helpful

I have a similar question. Someone once told me children wearing shoes with velcro on them will be a target for bullies. Are velcro shoes really that bad?

My DS2 is starting secondary school this September, and he still struggles with his shoe laces. He has asd/learning difficulties and this is one thing he struggles with. He knows how to do them, and has done them, but sometimes it takes a long time for him to do it. If his shoe laces come undone at school it might be a problem for him. I also worry about him in PE too if he’s struggling to tie the laces on his trainers and then his school shoes when he’s getting back in to his uniform.

Clip ons are pretty common. My older children's school seems to be quite unusual in having a proper tie. Was fun teaching them how to do a half Windsor to guard against peanuts!