Clip-on tie at secondary school

[LongStoryLong]

Hi all, my first time in AIBU 😬 so you know, have at it!

My thing is this: my DC is going into Y7 at a large comprehensive secondary school in our town. It’s a grammar area, so all the children took the 11+ and most will have failed it, which is why they’re not going to the grammar school down the road (I think this is important context).

We went uniform shopping the other day, and I was dismayed to find that it’s ONLY possible to buy a clip-on tie for this school- real ties are not made.

AIBU on several counts really:

1. how common is this? Does anyone else have secondary DC at a school where ONLY clip-on ties are available?

2. I find this demeaning- like they’re saying to the kids, you didn’t make the grade, here, have this baby tie. Is that my prejudice talking?

3. I don’t know how it works in the town, but I worry that this will be used as a way of othering our kids by the grammar kids. Sure, it’s mean, but it’s a physical manifestation of their otherness, and I don’t see why that’s desirable.

FYI, we’ll be new to the school, so I’m not going to kick up a fuss (yet?!) but I just want others’ views so I can temper my own really.

Thank you all!

It will be a safety thing as well as means the ties always look smart as the kids can't tie them short/ wrong etc. honestly not a big deal loads of schools do this.

I'm grateful for clip on ties, saves waiting for them or me to faffle around with doing a tie in the morning, it's quicker and has a safety aspect to it, they'll have their adult life to enjoy a proper tie.

Down side is they often get lost, and daughters got caught on a bush on the way to school! and broke, lol at least that's what she said.

My DD will be at a comprehensive in a comprehensive-only county. They have a clip on and I was a bit sad because I loved being able to do a tie and I also loved being creative (kipper ties were in when I started secondary and shoestring when I left!).
But it's not a massive deal. We'll teach her to do a bow tie so she has a choice for proms.

Loads of places use them, most uniforms with a tie use them. Are they all at risk of strangulation, no. But it removes the slight possible risk.

My children ho to a school (that's a desirable school/difficult to get in to) that has clip on ties. I work in one where they don't. Where I work, the kids do stupid things with their ties. At my children's school they all look smart. I don't think it has anything to do with thinking the children in that school can't manage a proper tie. It has everything to do with looking smart and not strangling each other.

I have a student saved by a quick release tie, it was not clip on, but velcroed at the back. A little bi of silliness, nothing major, but the class before had somehow knocked the computer slightly off kilter on it's stand. It got elbowed by one of the boys passing the end of the row, and fell, catching the boys tie as it went down. I saw his head jerked hard down, then released as the velcro gave way. Without the quick release, the weight and fall of the computer monitor would probably have broken his neck. He wasn't even being that silly, just sitting exaggeratedly close to the screen as a group of boys went past to leave the room and were crowding him, just to emphasise that he was trying to work and they were being annoying

I've not heard of clip on ties in schools before.

But why bother with them at all? Most people don't wear them for work anymore. It's just pointless expense for parents, and pointless uniform policing for school staff. If you need to wear one in adulthood you can watch a Youtube video to find out how to tie one!

I would have thought the strangulation risk was higher at primary school? And they all have normal ties?

My own children wore normal ties but get round the kipper/too skinny tie by having them tie it so the knot is above the school logo on the tie and the logo must be visible between the knot and the V of the jumper.

My mate's children's school have clip on ties, my children would have preferred the clip on.

It doesn't other anybody and thinking that somehow your academic life is determined and set in stone at 11 years old is quite frankly ridiculous. Ds1 was average (no grammar system here) and then absolutely excelled at secondary achieving an incredible set of grades for both GCSE and then 4 A stars at A level.

You are massively overthinking this.

Very common. I’m a teacher and from a uniform perspective it stops ties being too short and messy. When I was at school the cool kids had the shortest ties! Which obviously looked ridiculous. Lots of kids can’t do ties too….some can’t even do their shoe laces.

My view is definitely coloured by the fact that I fundamentally don’t agree with uniforms at all. There’s no solid research supporting them. If I had my way the whole uniform infrastructure would be dismantled :)

Have you ever met a teenager?

I think it’s quite refreshing and - as well as safe and simple - inclusive for kids with disabilities. Some schools here are insisting on lace up shoes which is not very inclusive. NB no grammar schools here since 1973 👍🏼

Like previous posters have said it’s for a few reasons I should imagine.

1. so they can’t be pulled/strangled with
2. so they can’t make them into a fashion statement that doesn’t match the schools uniform code (when I was at school you had to tie it so it was short and fat) and it looks ‘messy’
3. When I was at school ties were taken off outside of lessons and used to whip each other with. Especially boys whipping girls bums, or whacking the shit out of each other.

@LongStoryLong - you are going to really struggle with your DC at “big school”! Teens will go to any lengths to wind each other up - no one is going to strangle your child to death! The clip on ties are more practical for the whole range of reasons others have mentioned.

I have also known a boy hang himself with his tie, it was a spur of the moment thing, and he would probably have changed his mind a few seconds later, but sadly some one totally unknowing opened the door he was hanging from unexpectedly, and he died (this was 20 years ago)

How would you know?

It's got absolutely nothing to do with 'othering' non-grammat school kids. It's pretty standard in many or most schools (probably including grammars). Kids are crap at tying ties, some tie them deliberately badly and yes, boys are constantly trying to strangle each other with them. Imo ties (and indeed school uniforms) are outdated anyway.

Fewer and fewer workplaces insist on ties, and most other countries manage fine without school uniforms. Schools are, as usual, behind the times compared with the professional workplace standards they are always claiming to be trying to get children to emulate. Most kids hate ties and uniforms and, as a teacher, uniform rules are petty and a pain to enforce.

😂 my thoughts exactly!

This is exactly how I feel about ties in general- if it’s not a proper tie, what is the earthly point of it?

It’s not a special measure because it’s commonplace. If it was the only school in the country, then it would be a special measure. But it isn’t.

And that wouldn’t lead to more ‘othering’ how?!