To ask if you think the Olympic boxers are male?

[ArabellaScott]

The finals for both boxers are tonight and tomorrow.

I'm curious to hear whether people think they are females with a DSD, or males with a DSD.

YABU - they're female
YANBU - they're male

the head of the ioc made a statement saying they were raised as women, think they are women and have female passports, thus they are women.and should be able to compete.

we all know this is simplistic.

Yes. It has all come down to the 'female' in the passport. Which could have also been changed to female at any time in some countries. And I am not saying that these boxer's have. I don't believe that they have. But that is the huge weakness in the IOC policy for this particular sport.

Considering the risk to their safety, if the female people they are competing with are being asked to ignore the evidence of their eyes and ears then they ought to be furnished with conclusive evidence to show that it is a safe and fair match.

If they were women there would never be this level of protection.

So, male.

I linked the IBA page upthread, with all of their evidence. They are not allowed to share medical information, so they can't show the test results, is my understanding. But they have said very clearly that the boxers are XY and have male advantage, as has World Boxing.

It's very clear that they are male.

The IVF specialist who agreed - how did they get hold of the unpublished test results?

He's not just an IVF specialist, he's a senior IBA official and European Boxing president.

https://www.iba.sport/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Ioannis-Filippatos_CV-1.pdf

My sympathy is with the women getting punched in the face by males, and risking serious injury or worse.

XY=Males.

Male XY.
Despite claims that the IBA is corrupt, the fact that neither boxer challenged the ruling even though it meant missing out on a medal tells me what I need to know.
If I had dedicated my life to a sport and was unfairly disqualified, damn right I would be challenging through every court in the land. I would have nothing to hide.
They know. The IOC knows everyone around them knows. The gaslighting is off the scale now.

Male. XY chromosomes.

Somehow a respected Olympics journalist claims to have seen the test results, and wrote this

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/5/fa9lt6ypbwx5su3z20xxnfzgtao0gy

3 Wire Sports has seen the test results and a June 5, 2023 IBA letter to the IOC that says tests of Khelif, one in New Delhi, a prior test in Istanbul at the 2022 world championships, “concluded the boxer’s DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.”

For both Khelif and Lin, the New Delhi test – from, as IBA disclosed Monday, the independent Dr Lal PathLabs – consists of three pages. In part:

The first page provides, along with basic identifying information for each athlete and date and time of sample collection, result summary – “abnormal” – and interpretation – “chromosome analysis reveals Male karyotype.” The second page offers photographic representation of the 22 paired autosomes and then, for each athlete, further depicts an X and a Y chromosome. Page three makes plain that the lab is a “national reference lab” and, as well, accredited by CAP, the Northfield, Illinois-based College of American Pathologists, and certified by the ISO, the Swiss-based International Organization for Standardization.

My eyes tell me they are male but it's the decision not to appeal the IBA disqualification with CAS which convinces me that not only are they male, they know they are male and they want to keep it a secret so they can continue beating women.

XY

Male

They’re male. They failed sex tests; they have XY chromosomes; they look exactly like men (physique and build not hair); they sit like men; they act like men. Because they’re men.

I presume they have a DSD, but they’d have known about that ages ago, ie well before the sex tests. And yet they continued in women’s sports and, worse, in a sport that means they’d be hitting women.

That and the tit grab.

Sorry, the results were sent to Dr Ioannis Filippatos as an advisor for the IBA and as the president of the European Boxing Confederation. He confirmed he is not paid by the IBA.

https://eubcboxing.org/presidents/

However, the World Boxing Organisation has also been involved, either having received the tests or done their own (that has not been said). The IOC were sent the tests, so I assume that WBO was also.

The testing laboratories have be both in Turkey and in India and certified.

Again, the issue is that this information is out there in statements made by the organisations. Yet there is major mainstream media ignoring it to support the IOC's falsehoods (eg. they were sent the information and they lied about it. They then had to confirm that they received the information).

We have to question why those media outlets are not giving all the available information and reporting in a balanced and impartial manner?

absolutely.

Those who support these two athletes inclusion never seem to give those female athletes a thought.

It is all about centring the male they view as vulnerable. It is telling. They don't centre the female athletes who are even more vulnerable, and may have even more disadvantaged histories.

Misogyny.

There are 2 separate questions here:

1. Should these individuals be permitted to compete in women's boxing?

1. Are these individuals (who were assigned female at birth, have lived as women, and are not trans), male?

The second question shouldn't be asked. Our preoccupation should be with the first Q only.

Mumsnet is not representative of the real world.

@ReadyTeddy1000 re the penis claims-
there’s a photo of a distinct bulge at the groin- but I don’t trust photos, we all know why.
there’s video where Imane looks like a toddler or teenager, with his hand inside his shorts rearranging things. Again, not conclusive.

So I wouldn’t actually bet my hat on those two images, but all the other information plus the exceptionally male physique- physiology, not muscular and gender non conforming- actually physiology- makes make the most likely.

And of course not challenging the test results or repeating them to validate their position.

If it walks talks and quacks, it’s not a Russian seagull.

Go ahead and answer the first and explain why. Without reference to the second.

I posted this elsewhere but have added a bit-

The arguments in support of these two boxers reduce to-
she thinks she’s a woman.
the ioc say she’s a woman
she has an f in her passport
it would be awful for her to be an effeminate boy in Algeria.
we really shouldn’t wonder what sex other people are.
the Russians are under the bed
gosh you’re all so bigoted, but not me. I’m super nice 😊

Nah you were right the first time. The Algerian boxer is wearing a male groin guard which has a bulge at the front to accommodate male genitals. Female groin guards are flat as they are protecting the lower pelvic region

Except, that there needs to be a reason to exclude these male athletes from competing as female athletes.

No organisation can randomly exclude female athletes from female athlete competitions.

I beg to differ.

For instance, we know that the UK population, when polled, agree that male people should not be included in female sport.

Why do you think that MN differs from the real world?