To ask if you think the Olympic boxers are male?

[ArabellaScott]

The finals for both boxers are tonight and tomorrow.

I'm curious to hear whether people think they are females with a DSD, or males with a DSD.

YABU - they're female
YANBU - they're male

@MistyHazelFox
Yeah, but what if she/he turns with xx chromosome? Because were not talking of man taking the test, we are talking about intersex person taking the test. There's about 40 different way intersex can display in person, which includes she/he being xx but still being intersex. Intersex doesn't mean she/he will be a man automatically if chromosome testing came out and it turns she/he is intersex because intersex person can have xxy, xyy, x, etc...

🤯 You have two independent accredited testing labs and three international boxing associations all saying these athletes are male. Male with XY karotype and high testosterone levels. MALE.

Oh and the word intersex is outdated and offensive. Do better.

Please stop using the term "intersex". It is offensive to those who have DSD (the acceptable and correct term to use).

Whatever conditions, genitalia, chromosomes a person has they are still either Male or Female. There is no-one who is both or neither. There never had been and there never will be.

There are 2 sexes. "Intersex" is a misleading and inaccurate term and as I said earlier, OFFENSIVE to those who actually have these differences .

Stop using that word please. This has been explained many, many, many times.

They were previously tested, and banned, from the women's category because they didn't meet the criteria of "being female" so why have they been allowed to compete in the Olympics?

That's a valid question for us to ask and the IOC must clarify. It's the fact that they've been allowed by the IOC to compete at all, after failing the test, that's causing all the attention, it's the IOC's fault entirely (and the boxers are complicit if they know they have "male biology" advantage).

IOC just checked if their identity documents described them as female. That's it.

MessinaBloom · Today 05:28

The IBA has every reason to cause disturbance at this Olympics, as they were ousted as the official boxing federation - a first in IOC history. They've managed to do that, haven't they?

That's a complete failure of logic on your part.

At the times of the tests, in 2022 and 2023, the IBA were approved, by the IOC, to be the authority controlling the boxing at the Olympics. Why would they want to make trouble before they'd been removed? It males no sense at all.

As to how I know that the tests were requested by coaches from other countries, it's because it's been reported quite widely; fortunately, as you've discussed the Telegraph link earlier in the thread, there will be no need for you to question this again.

They’re both blokes.

I didn't know it was offensive. I apologize.

The IBA has every reason to cause disturbance at this Olympics, as they were ousted as the official boxing federation - a first in IOC history. They've managed to do that, haven't they?

If the IOC had a clear, properly implemented policy no one would have been able to 'cause disturbance'. This is ALL at the IOC's door.

If it were a lie, which surely is what people who think it's an IBA conspiracy must think, why would they bother as it could have quickly and easily been disproved.
If someone shady organisation accused me of being male I would prove I'm not.
The boxers haven't done this so are they part of the conspiracy? If so they don't need our sympathy. If not they could have made it all go away last year before it was even a thing.

Thanks, yes, I'm aware of the IOC's entry requirements being simply "F" on a passport; my point was really that the IOC should justify why that's appropriate - I think all of us who have been arguing for days and days over multiple threads that these boxers should be exluded are clear that it's not appropriate. My post was trying to suggest that the scrutiny on the IOC is justified, but I could have made that clearer.

I wonder how the IOC think the F gets in the birth certificates and passports if it's impossible to tell? 🤯

”(and the boxers are complicit if they know they have "male biology" advantage).”

I am 100% sure they both know they have male biology advantage, @nietzscheanvibe, and I am 100% sure they couldn’t give a damn, as long as they keep winning.

I agree - my apologies for misreading your post!

So Bach states it's far far too complicated to know what a woman is but he's absolutely sure that these two boxers are women.

Do they even listen to themselves?!?! 🤯

AIBU: to think that we're just going around in circles with these threads, and that trying to convince the sympathisers is an impossible task because they seem unable (or unwilling) to employ some basic critical thinking skills? 🤷‍♂️

21:51
09 Aug

• Boxing
• Women's 66kg - Final
• ALG-
• CHN

Final is tonight.

No, I think some people have changed their minds - even after weeks of relentless disinformation from the IOC and the media, over 80% of MNers think the boxers are male.

I do agree with testing them. With a comprehensive view including all the factors that define sex, not only the chromosomes, plus professionally and independently assessing whether what they have found makes the athlete suitable to compete in the women category or not, for the sport they practice.
I do not have doubts that Imane was assigned female at birth. I do not think they have tampered with that.
What happened at puberty, we really do not know. Only professionals in the matter can really say.

And then there's those who post the relentless disinformation...

I don't think anyone has argued against comprehensive testing. The fact is that a test has already resulted in a ban and the boxers did not appeal. It's* *only because of the IOC's lax approach that they've been allowed to compete now.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/
The NHS page includes the term intersex.
Sorry if anyone finds it offensive.
It is not the intention.
It is just quite intuitive as the word itself shows that the assignment of sex is not straight forward.

Intuitive but misleading - which is why a conference of organisations representing people with DSDs agreed to change it about 20 years ago.

It's still in common use because if you want to argue peole can change sex, it's convenient to be able to imply there are natural inbetween states.

But unhelpful to people who actually have one of the various conditions - who are all one sex or the other - because it makes people think of the old idea of 'hermaphrodites'¹ and lumps them all together, when in fact the conditions are sex specific, quite distinct from each other, and come with entirely different sets of symptoms and medical needs.

¹ A perfectly valid concept in some species, such as snails, but not humans.

It's straightforward to test :

XY chromosomes
Testosterone more than 5 nmol/l
Androgen sensitivity.

Which is how swimming and athletics do it.

We need to protect women's sports. For fairness and safety.

If that means sex testing athletes, then that's what's needed. If we can test for doping, we can test for sex.

XX