Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

Why is it for women to sort out? They aren't women.

I jump up and down for great wins from wherever. I am really getting my exercise while couch Olympicing!!!

Me too Hellofabore allegiance to great performance and achievement here.

You're a nasty man

Ooh, I love a lesson from a male ‘feminist’.

As you say, several posters have tried to explain equity and equality. Those posts always have been not engaged with either here or on the other threads.

I think that it is actually significant that it has not been engaged with. Because to some people, it could be said that their principles for equality ignores equity because equity immediately excludes male people with pubertal advantage from sport.

Ooh, I love a lesson from a male ‘feminist’

You seem to see women as only worthy in comparison to men. You judge women by men's standards. Women are in need of protection from men. That doesn't make women subordinate or inferior but it's a fact that women aren't as strong as men physically. We also live in a patriarchal society which is stacked in favour of men.

Women are different to men but are human beings and entitled to the same rights and privileges.

Also. Why are silent about the dignity and safety of women? You say it's degrading for women athletes to have their own categories of sport. They disagree with this. And there is significant distress at having to share changing facilities with dicks.

Why are you picking and choosing what is 'degrading' and for whom. You make a big fuss about listening to males but you don't seem to be very good at listening to females.

This poll is 95% disagreeing with you.

And yet, you still are telling us all we are wrong and bigoted.

Tone deaf doesn't even come close.

Elite women athletes want sex segregation in sport.

Tone deaf doesn't even come close

Saying trans women are women is incompatible with respect for the dignity and humanity of all women who don't want to be redefined according to regressive stereotypes and have their single sex spaces taken away from them.

Absolute cock custard.

Of course women need protection – from the men that rape and kill them, with such regularity that it's often not seen as news 😡

That view is compatible with nothing that suggests women are naturally subordinate or inferior.

I really don't know how your mind works. More importantly, perhaps: do you????

Tandora your understanding of feminism seems to be 1. Ignore all physical differences between the sexes 2. Prioritise male ‘women’ above all else.

That’s not feminism, just as its not equality if I was to say something stupid like, the parent who births the baby should get all the rights. If men want parental rights, they can birth a baby themselves. Because let’s not forget, in clown world, men can give birth.

You can recognise trans women are women without redefining womanhood in terms of regressive stereotypes. The existence of trans women debunks stereotypes

Transwomen have to be men or they couldn't be trans

I think you're running out of arguments, mate.

No you can't. If you remove biological sex from the definition of "woman" then regressive stereotypes are all that is left.

The existence of trans women debunks stereotypes

How does a man saying he ‘feels like a woman’ and therefore he is a woman, debunk any stereotypes? It’s fully embarrasses them, it says women are women based on the performance man-made stereotypes rather than biological reality.

We're gonna need another thread 😀

No, the exact opposite is true. Transwomen almost invariably evidence their 'womanhood' via the stereotypes.

while the relationship between gender identity and gender stereotyping is still up for debate, the development of Gender identity / constancy is generally recognised in the literature to be separate from / independent of the specific content of gender related beliefs (eg the belief that women should do the cooking, have nice nails, are naturally more caring , whatever),

Please no 😂😭. I think I’m done for a while

By definition Transwomen are regressive stereotypes. There's no such thing as lady brain and the rest is performative femininity. A man will never experience what it means to be a woman.

I rekon you're using the small number of trans women who live stealth as a stick to beat the rest of us cunty women with. Not because you care about them at all - you're perfectly willing to make it harder for them to access healthcare while remaining discrete about their sex.
In all honesty, I don't understand what motivates you.

Did you change back 🥲?

That can be aboit about “ passing”,. . (Ironically) “Gender criticals” hold particular vitriol for trans women who look too much like men.

Is this where we start pointing out just how little strong safeguarding is incompatible with extreme transactivism? By extreme, I mean the type that prioritises gender identity over sex in any matter where recognition of sex is important.

Because when some people refuse to acknowledge that a person who is male with a transgender identity has to be treated as the same as the rest of the male population for assessing safeguarding risks to create strong safeguarding policy, it creates violations in the human rights for female people. That right of safety and for privacy and dignity.

There really does need to be a recognition that for these purposes male people with transgender identities are male and they are not female, even if they believe they are.