to say women don't have XY chromosomes?

[taylorswift1989]

Seeing a lot of posts on social media with people admitting they were "wrong" to call Imane Khelif a man, and that they now understand "she's a woman with XY chromosomes."

Am I going insane? A person with XY chromosomes is male! (Regardless of how they identify, of course.) Why are people saying stuff that is obviously nonsensical? Are people really that ignorant of basic biological facts?

She was raised as a woman, she was born with a vagina.

Do you think that people born with vaginas are men?

Because no one wants to be accused of wrongspeak.

It’s possible to feel empathy for an individual with a DSD, while still feeling they don’t belong in elite women’s sports. But somehow it is no longer OK to say that.

From what I’ve seen, some people believe that she’s intersex and that’s why she failed the gender eligibility test last year. I haven’t seen anything official stating this though

I think if they went through a male puberty they shouldn’t be in women’s sports.

TBH I think that yes, an awful lot of people are clueless about basic biology. And it’s not necessarily a lack of education, just a lack of education about biology.

My dh has a lot of letters after his name, but I’ve still had to educate him about such basics as photosynthesis and the function of a kidney!

Sorry but you are the one who is ignorant of biology- although the facts are not “basic” but - as always with the physiology of human bodies - very complex.

Having XY chromosomes is not sufficient to make a person male. There are people born with XY chromosomes who are medically and legally female.

They may have “male” chromosomes , but insisting that this makes them “male” is both a nonsense scientifically and medically, and also deeply offensive and discriminatory.

I can recommend doing some reading about the physiology of human sex development and the variations it produces.

Take care.

Intersex is another way of saying Differences of Sex Development.

OK. But regarding the question in the OP- Do you think women have XY chromosomes? Do you think women are born with vaginas?

I think she is one of those that is genuinely stuck in the middle. One of the very rare exceptions where she has both XX and XY chromosome.

Point is having the Y chromosome it's unfair to compete in a sport against women with normal XX chromosomes

It's unfair physiologically

It’s not that straightforward. For 100% of women, they are born with vaginas.

But there are also a very very small minority of that 100% who have XY chromosomes.

DSD XY males can have a shorter blind ended vagina, sometimes no more than a dimple. They are not women

OK. I think that people who are born with vaginas are women, but respect your right to think otherwise.

I think you need to consult Emma Hilton on this. XY means biologically male whatever the presentation outwardly.

You need to read up on genetics and biology before commenting so wildly

DSD results in malfunctioning or malformed genitalia at times, it wont be a vagina, as that is an organ that leads to the womb. Does he have a womb?

Women do not have XY chromosomes. However a tiny tiny tiny number of people have XY chromosomes, but otherwise have a fully working female reproductive tract excluding ovaries, could bring a baby to term with IVF using a donated egg, and don’t experience male puberty.

As a completely separate point, the vast majority of women are born with vaginas.

And people can call themselves whatever they like, but if they have had the advantages that make puberty brings to sporting performance they should not be in the women’s category.

So do you think that people with MRKH are not women?

i don’t know who Emma Hilton is, but if she thinks she gets to decide a person is designated “male” simply because they have male pattern chromosomes , regardless of the rest of their physiological (and social) development then she is spreading cruel, harmful and nonsensical information.

Anyways I am not going to engage, as the information has been shared for all to educate themselves, and there’s no point arguing with people who continue to insist the earth is flat just because that’s simple to understand and what it looks like to them.

She has a vagina and a medical condition I do see the point about the boxing it's complicated but she isn't a man.

Oh. Dear. God.

XX women should compete with XX women. A person who is XY can compete in the XY category.

DSDs are quite unusual. Surprisingly there are a lot of ‘women’ with DSDs in the Olympics. I wonder why that is? I wonder why 3 women with DSDs won all the medals in the 800m one year?

I find it surprising that someone with a health condition would do so well at sport- actually competing among the top athletes in the entire world.

Unless something about that DSD gave them an advantage, like maybe, a female birth certificate combined with all the advantages of male puberty.

I think the only thing that's clear here is that this athlete doesn't have standard XX chromosomes (otherwise there wouldn't be any level of discussion).

I've read on a number of news sites today that "some women have XY chromosomes, and produce testosterone at a male level". At what point DO we call such people male?! Are we saying that any ambiguity over external genitalia in a baby automatically makes them female, and that no one can be male with a slight difference (DSD)?

And if someone is in good faith mistakenly raised as female (because it's really not that clear before puberty) is that enough of a reason to let them physically fight against actual females?

XY, on its own, does not make someone male or give them a physiological advantage in sport, nor mean that they will go through male puberty

There are people born XY who are completely unaware of it and only find out later in life.