to say women don't have XY chromosomes?

[taylorswift1989]

Seeing a lot of posts on social media with people admitting they were "wrong" to call Imane Khelif a man, and that they now understand "she's a woman with XY chromosomes."

Am I going insane? A person with XY chromosomes is male! (Regardless of how they identify, of course.) Why are people saying stuff that is obviously nonsensical? Are people really that ignorant of basic biological facts?

Plain and simple. She doesn’t want to go up against other XY people. So why should XX people go up against her.

No one with 5-ARD finds out they aren’t girls at 18. They go through male puberty. Semenya’s career in world athletics began at 18 and didn’t finish until quite recently. Semenya is currently 33.

This blog may be of interest - a person with a DSD showing how those who champion the use of the outdated term 'intersex' tend to be those who are least affected by DSDs or have self identified as having them when they don't:

https://differently-normal.com/2021/10/25/the-invention-of-intersex/

Also LOL at being called a flat earther by that poster

The IOC created this situation. The competitors themselves did not appeal the IBA decision, to exclude them from female competition, with CAS, possibly because all tribunal outcomes are, unlike the IBA test results, made public. This is how Caster Semenya being male became public knowledge.

I'm not sure why you think a policy which endangers women's safety isn't something to get upset about.

I wonder how many people with DSDs are competing in Olympic male categories? None I suspect. Wonder why that would be...?🤷‍♀️

XXY

Again, people have different opinions.

Some people with variations in sex development object to the term “intersex” and this is perfectly valid.

It doesn’t change the fact that there are people in the world form whom intersex is a legitimate and preferred label. This is also valid.

In what ways is she hateful? I'd be interested to more about this.

How do you know they are xxy. Do you have link?

I am sorry for someone who it seems has a DSD and was wrongly identified as female having been born in a developing country without means to identify this. It will have been identified once they didn't get female puberty, so this isn't news to them.And I'm not so sorry that I think they should be allowed to destroy women's sports as compensation.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on all of this. We can all sympathise with Khelif and the wider family thinking they had a girl, albeit a girl whose genitals didn't seem quite the same as other girls. It's also totally understandable that in countries without advanced healthcare systems, this is not picked up - baby is healthy, feeding and growing, nothing to worry about. But when that baby gets to be 12/13/14, hasn't started periods, starts to grow very tall and very broad, everyone knows there is something going on. It must be very difficult coming to terms with that new identity, for the person who has the DSD and for the family, especially in a conservative society. They need a huge amount of compassion and understanding.

Where the line is crossed is when it is revealed that despite not having a penis or whatever, that you are actually a male. Then deciding to push all that to one side and compete against women anyway.

When female puberty didn't occur - I'm guessing you'd question what was going on if your teenage daughter got no breast development or periods?

Sex is not assigned at birth, it is observed and recorded. On rare occasions genitalia may be ambiguous as a consequence of an undetected DSD and a mistake may be made in that observation and record. Not every country in the world has advanced testing which would reveal the issue quite quickly so some people do not find out the truth until they reach puberty.

I voted YABU she has a vagina and a womb and is a woman. For those who are saying it’s unfair that she is competing, do you realise that she has been beaten by other women in previous competitions and so her xy chromosome status is obviously not conferring on her super abilities?

I'm not sure we should be ripping up biology books based on a very small minority who have a DSD. It might be going forwards that there needs to be a separate category.

Oh and this absolutely is being driven / taken advantage of by trans activists, because if a F on the passport is good enough for these two boxers, then it is good enough for Caitlyn Jenner. (For example, not that CJ would and has strong opinions on the subject of sports)

XXY is a male dsd

Well said 👏

And men don't have vaginas.
Maybe not everything is life is as simple and clean cut as we'd like it to be. She was born female presenting. She was raised as a girl. She has lived her whole life as a woman and has faced all the challenges that women do. She has not benefited from male privilege in her life.

She isn't a man that has decided to pretend to be a woman to take advantage of a system and to allow himself to beat women.

She is a woman that unfortunately found she has a genetic condition and has been vilified for it.

Plenty of males would have been beaten in boxing by elite female boxers. Not always winning doesn't mean you belong in the category. I wouldn't always win every.event at the primary school sports day but it's doesn't mean it's ok for me to be in it.

And how do you know the athlete has a womb and vagina? That hasn't been published anywhere as far as I've seen?

Ummmm 😳

Here comes the veiled racism.

In the UK, where testing is often (not always) done , people with XY chromosomes are sometimes assigned female. This is not a mistake , it’s a matter of clinical judgement.

I don't think any of this has been confirmed. You are speculating that Khelif has a uterus. Algeria are being very cagey about the diagnosis/testing.

To be honest, I don't think it's fair to ask either of their boxers to reveal their personal medical details to the public. The IOC are firmly to blame here, and if you saw the press conference with Bach this morning, they are doubling down on their position which is the F in someone's passport is all that matters.

A very mediocre male boxer being beaten by an elite female boxer is not evidence that men have no physical advantage over women.

Literally nowhere has published evidence about either boxers genitalia, thank god. Whatever I think about their participation I do think they deserve privacy about such personal matters.

Interesting article in the Guardian about this situation.

It is complicated and difficult, no matter what anyone says. I see people commenting that the boxers are XY or XXY. I don't know where this information comes from, because the test run by the IBA has not been specified; we know the result was that they were banned but we don't know why (as far as I am aware - happy to be informed by someone that knows better and has sources that aren't just hearsay)

It's a bit too veiled for me.