To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

No woman ever has had a T level that it too high for her to compete against other women. That only happens to men.

Khelif was banned by the International Boxing Association in 2023! They haven't been discredited.

We need to make the female category XX only. End it there. DSD would be welcome to fight in the male category. Women are suffering because of a tiny minority. Strange isnt it that trans male athletes generally choose to complete in their female category.
DSD athletes choose the female category because they know they have an advantage.

It doesn't matter how he got there,he's a man and he shouldn't be applauded for punching women in the face.

I don't see many people who they were born a woman fighting to compete as a man

But if there are tests done and an athlete passes the test they should be allowed, sure fight to change the law, but 'it's not fair' does no one any good

That's not the gotcha you think it is. The commonality between all of these athletes is that they're from regions (often rural villages) where their condition wasn't properly medically investigated at birth. In the case of Semenya, there's also apparently a regional cluster of births with 5-ARD in southern Africa. But most importantly, local sporting authorities deliberately recruit male athletes with DSD and female ID - the Zambian football team had not one but FOUR players suspended after failing testing for the African tournament. That's also four women of colour who didn't get to compete and earn bonuses for participation.

The reason for this is obvious and it's not racism.
If you are a White person with a DSD born in Germany with ambiguous genitalia you will have genetic testing in babyhood. This happened to a friend here in the UK about 30 years ago. Their White baby was born with ambiguous genitalia and given a unisex name until genetic testing provided further insight a few months later. It might be quicker now I am not sure.

If you are a White Spanish person and you are a girl but you are 16 and haven't had your period yet, you will get medical testing and disorders of the type Caster Semenya has would be identified then.

It is only those born in less developed countries with limited healthcare access that don't have access to this kind of testing. Many such countries are in Africa. No one in a country with a functioning easy access healthcare system is going to reach age 20 with no breast development, no periods, and a deep voice and not get some medical testing done.

I feel very sorry for the athletes in this situation but ascribing it to pure racism and talking about White women as the villains of the piece "weaponising their tears" is pretty low. If the Algerian boxer knocked out a Kenyan female boxer or a Cambodian female boxer had ceded the match rather than fight, how would you explain that?

100% this. I will save my #bekind for the women these men are unfairly fighting. So what if they have been raised as females - their wants don’t top trump women’s rights - it’s just another example of male privilege and putting the wants of men over the rights of women.

A great quote I read was something along the lines of “everyone has the right to live their lives as they wish but not everyone has the right to be an Olympic champion”.

Bottom line is these men are fighting women for sporting glory - glory they would never achieve if fighting other men. Same with trans athletes. They know full well what they are doing and Khelif’s smug and smirking face after the match show us this.

And for those worrying about the vitriol Khelif is getting online - try looking at the glee and joy Algerian men (and other men) are showing in their posts - absolutely getting off on Carini getting beaten up - Khelif will return to a hero’s welcome so I wouldn’t waste any energy worrying about his mental health.

Yep, but those women don't matter. When their existence is eventually and grudgingly acknowledged, we're told that they didn't suffer.

The hate is OTT as usual on social media, but the outcry and disgust is valid.

Khelif, knows he is biologically male, he would have gone through through male puberty, he knows he has the body, physic and power of a man. I feel sympathy for his DSD. However, he must know he should not be fighting with females for safety reasons. He is a biological male who chose to go into a ring to fight a female. That is abhorrent and worthy of distain and disgust. The only thing he won is contempt.

If he cannot see that himself after yesterdays shocking footage, do we need to wait until he kills someone in the ring?

The IOC should have prevented the situation in the first place and public outcry is the only weapon there is against it.

Of course those women have suffered, they've been denied the opportunities which are rightfully theirs.

Women being hit as hard as possible by a person with male physical strength are the ones having their lives put at risk.

How are some women are so brainwashed to 'be kind' that they think compassion for someone's life struggles should take priority over other women's safety? The Olympic Committee are totally at fault here. How could they possibly have thought spectators would accept this situation?

There are photos of Semenya in male uniform. There is also Semenya's own evidence about being assigned boy-specific chores as a child rather than being kept at home with their sisters.

As DSD is quite rare in the population, I think, to me it seems to indicate that they do have an unfair advantage as often seem to be in elite sports. I think no XY in female sports needs to be the rule and being brought up as a girl is neither here nor there.

No.

He knows he's a man, he didn't even bother to appeal against the iba ruling because he knows he is biologically male.

People including the IOC are being incredibly cruel to the sportswomen who train and sacrifice to become elite athletes.

It is basic misogyny, no different than racism and yet globally still accepted and encouraged by men.

I guess you’re very selective as to which ‘medical professionals’ you listen to.

Suddenly there are all these people with DSDs on the podium...

Leaving aside these specific boxers, does this quote from the IOC about it mean that for boxing, the only criteria is what is on their passport?? Surely that cannot be the case for boxing.

"I would just say that everyone competing in the women's category is complying with the competition eligibility rules," IOC spokesman Adams said on Tuesday. "They are women in their passports and it is stated that is the case."

If the Algerian boxer does have Swyer syndrome, does that include androgen insensitivity?

I’m as GC as they come but wavering on this case. If the athlete has a vagina and uterus and no testes, where is the testosterone coming from and are they even sensitive to it? I suppose I’m trying to work out what “advantage of male puberty” the athlete has? If they were raised female then their societal experience is that “of a woman” also (for what that’s worth/whatever it means).

Well I knew nothing about Khelif's boxing record until your post. So I just looked it up and see they have not lost a bout since May 22.
I can only assume that growing physical maturity and therefore strength means they now punch like a man even if this difference in physical strength wasn't quite so marked during adolescence.

If there's a third sex, what's the third gamete?

Of course the other boxer in the same situation is Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan. It'll be 'interesting' to see how their match unfolds.

The IOC spokesman's statement

'"Everyone competing in the women’s category is complying with the competition eligibility rules," Adams said this week. "They are women in their passports, and it’s stated that this is the case, that they are female."'

So they're stated as women in their passports. That's OK then........

And notice how mens sports doesn’t?

The racism argument is taking the piss.

Black women have missed out on a spot in the Olympics because of this foolishness. A black female boxer could get seriously hurt fighting a biologically male boxer.

Woman tears when a man punches her in the head and calls himself a winner are not the same thing as ‘white women tears’.

Shame on those reaching like this. And to what end? To pander to male feelings over female safety and the future of female sport ? Fuck that.

They have tbf, they were stripped of ioc recognition for their corruption (which is a bit rich coming from the ioc)

Whether that discrediting invalidates the testing of the athlete in this instance is up for debate, but you can see why people aren't putting absolute faith in them wheen most people are shouting about T levels when that doesn't appear to be the basis of the secret test and also the athlete competed for a relatively long period without any such issues and have subsequently been ok'd by a federation of at least equal standing