To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

[AngeloMysterioso]

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

Ah, the red shorts of boxing are the new pink leggings of Bryson.

Appears very happy to there too🤮

if you have internal testes and an external vagina surely you don’t fit neatly into either category.

Quoting a PP here, sorry I can't remember who. They are not to blame for how I extrapolate.

There is one sex of human in particular who categorises others in terms of how many fuckable holes. Let's not pander to them.

And if you have internal testes, chances are they will produce testosterone. And you will undergo male puberty, with all its glorious advantages and ignominies.
Chances are, in the rare cases they don't, you're unlikely to be in elite sports.

Obviously not the kind of question she can be asked directly, I guess!

This, from Wikipedia, perhaps gives a clue that she does not.

Khelif grew up in a rural village in Tiaret Province, in northwestern Algeria.[2] She originally played football before switching to boxing. In her early years, she had to commute to a neighboring village to attend training sessions, and sold scrap metal to afford the bus fare.[3] She mentioned that her father initially did not allow her to participate in sports because "he did not approve of girls boxing

It also mentions that changing gender is illegal in Algeria so presumably, at whatever age she found out, she wouldn't have been able to just start living as a man instead, even if she had wanted to.

I don't think this means she should be able to compete. But it does mean I can sympathise with someone who has always boxed, as a woman, would/should lose her dreams through something outside of her control. She isn't even at the top of her sport, she is regularly beaten by better women.

It would be very different if she had discovered her DSD and then thought - 'oh, I know, I'll start training for a sport where it's likely that I'll be able to beat up people smaller and weaker than me and win lots of competitions'.

Why are we even debating this. There is a massive man (who now identifies as a woman) punching a much smaller biological woman (who doesn’t need to identify as anything else) because she is a woman, (in the face), in the name of ‘inclusivity’ because she was brave enough to get in the ring with him and call out the bullshit. It really is that straight forward. Now the Olympics, The Politicians and all the governing bodies need to protect women’s and girls rights and deal with gender issues as a separate issue outside of women’s rights. In many respects we are barely out of the last century regarding many women’s rights. Just look at Healthcare, pretty much all major studies are done on men. Our tiny bit of the healthcare pie is now also being concentrated on hormones, not for HRT for women, but for men, transitioning to women. You couldn’t make this shit up.

Though the photo on the last page seems to clear up our pondering.... does look a bit penisy to me...

This post is rather funny actually.

It has already been established by the IBA that this athlete is not female. While they may be a male with a difference in sex development, they are not female.

This person does not have a body that has been formed around the production of large gametes (regardless of whether those gametes are produced). They are male.

If you cannot support your post with evidence, then we must accept that you are merely making stuff up now. How is it that you know that this male person has a fully functional uterus with a fully functional (with female hormones) endocrine system that is needed to build a foetus? What is it that you know that the IBA does not?

And the IBA stated that this male athlete had advantage over female athletes meaning that they did indeed go through male puberty. Pretty hard to build that foetus with an endocrine system programmed to deliver male puberty, I reckon.

But it seems that you believe that the IBA has lied. Even though they have not retracted their statement which they would have done if it was false under the threat of being sued. So this seems implausible.

You may have the philosophical belief that a male person should be called a woman and should use female pronouns, but that is only ever your own belief. Not one other person in the world must comply with your demand that we do so. It is remarkable to think that other people should deny the material reality of this situation because you choose to.

It's one thing feeling sympathy for the person with this DSD. It's another thing to agree that it's OK for them to be in a boxing match with an XX woman who is physically disadvantaged because she hasn't been through male puberty.

Yes, quite possibly, helplessandheartbroke But could just be a fold in the material too, idk.

What exactly has the IOC gained by letting him compete? It's not adding up... What if a female recieved life changing injuries due to a bout with him? What happens then? What have they gained? There must be more to this.

A happy little penis too🤮

Absolutely. I don't disagree that she should be barred from competing. She should.

It's the constant referring to her as 'he', 'him' and 'a man' on this thread that I'm objecting to. It's uneccessary and unfair when someone has always considered themsleves to be a woman because it's what they believed for the first years of their life (no way to know how many unless it gets mentioned in an article but presumably 10-17 years).

Considering the Olympic Committee was determined to control the media with what they could and could not say... it appears it's all gone rather wrong. The headlines are becoming rather stunning ☀

I feel so sorry for any young bio woman now looking at a sporting career. It’s bad enough with the pay gaps etc but to think they have to train with the idea of one day potentially competing against a man is insane.

This 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

It is not relevant whether this person discovered they were male before or after they started to train. They well and truly knew before competing in the Olympics. And they still chose to compete. Even knowing that they had an advantage over female athletes because this was part of the IBA judgement from last year.

Yes, it must have been difficult to hear. But it does not change the fact that this male athlete knew all they had an advantage, and yet still chose to put female athletes in danger.

I find this a very sad.

If Khelif was proven to once have been male, and to have gone through a male puberty and received the competitive advantage of male muscle and bone mass, I’d be inclined tmo agree that this is not fair match. It’s just a physical difference that has no hope of matching for a fair fight.

But from what I’ve read (and please do share more evidence on this - I’m open to reading it!) Khelif is a female who has had their gender questioned and ‘failed’ an unspecified gender test. No criteria reported but maybe testosterone as BBC reported. And since then has received bad press.

She had lost 9 women’s fights before tonight against females. What advantage did she have on them? She lost those matches, and now won this one.

The IOC wants to be all progressive and inclusive and cool.

It knew there would be problems with this in sport, hence the attempt to gag the media on the subject of gender.

Things have gone a bit wrong for it.

You can choose to call this male athlete whatever you wish. However, you cannot expect any one else to comply with your wish that they use the language that aligns with your philosophical belief.

Using female pronouns for a male person obfuscates the meaning of statements. You can choose to communicate in an unclear way. Others choose to communicate using accurate, even if it feels blunt, language to ensure that their message is understood.

It really is very clear cut. Sex is binary, DSDs fall into either male or female categories.

The Y chromosome only ever occurs in males and never in females regardless of secondary sex characteristics which may appear to look like female presenting genitalia.

In a time where VAWG is at its all time high you’d have thought the Olympic Comittee would’ve read the fucking room, and if they insisted on inclusivity and once again pandering to the terminally offended they’d have chosen a different sport, not one that involves a male punching another woman in the head repeatedly.

The IBA statement that was released before the bout made it clear that these athletes were tested and found to be male athletes with physical advantages over female people.

And it does not matter a jot whether this male athlete loses.

This is a claim that is based on falsehoods. The falsehood being that you are using this male athlete's mediocrity as leverage to allow them to compete in a protected sports category that they should not be competing in.

It doesn't matter that this athlete has not been good enough to win. They are male. Their body has been tested and found to have advantage, as per the IBA's statement.

Using the logic that you have used here, as long as this person doesn't ever win, that should be fine. It doesn't matter how many female athletes they harm along way. Either through injury or through taking a female athletes opportunity when they are male.

The point is, this is a category boundary being ignored for the sake of a person's feelings or to uphold their perception about themselves when that perception does not reflect their material reality.

Would you feel the same way about an unfit 25 year old playing a contact sport with a female who is over 65 years old when it was a masters category event? Is that ok with you as long as that person did not win? What if them being there significantly injured the competing female athletes ? That is what the logic you are using results in.

Male people have, in general, more than 160% the punch power of a typical female. These athletes that the IOC have allowed have at least that much more power behind their punch. We know this because the IBA stated they were not female people and that they had been assessed to have advantage over female athletes. ie. these are male athletes.

There are many physical advantages that these male athletes have. I am happy to list more if you need.

However, the female athletes that they are punching have safety needs that are rather different than male people need. Female people have a greater risk of brain damage due to our more delicate brain fibres. This has been studied and is documented. So... that 160+% power difference is significant to the safety of female athletes.

Additionally, our bones are less dense. So not only are female people more prone to brain damage from a punch, but we are more prone to have our bones broken by that punch. Especially facial bones.

But it's not my philosphical belief, it's this woman's reality. DSD is (I believe) really rare and separate from the trans debate which an individual's stand on is a philosophical belief (personally I'm gender critical, do not believe a person can change sex and have very little sympathy or patience with non binary and trans issues. I'll happily call a person what they want to be called and support anyone's right to wear or do what they like but I don't believe their sex has changed). But finding out that you have an XY chromosone when everything else has showed you to be female throughout your life is a different and much more complicated case. It would really be denying her whole identity to refuse to address her as who she has always been.

I was wondering if it was "inclusivity" or was it monetary for the IOC, it does not add up at all..

Yes it's backfired spectacularly like the woke Queering Cermony opening the games...

I love the way the "inclusion" of an XY excludes all the other women who pay membership to their boxing federations along with all the other costs involved.

She's got balls that didn't descend. She's got the Y chromosome. This mediocre athelete should be fihting men. Why don't you get into a ring with her then? You are neither here, nor there.