To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

[AngeloMysterioso]

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

Everyone’s reality is different.

Ey? For 15 years you don't notice you have a penis?

Tone is hard to read so I'm letting you know I'm saying this in a polite way.

It is very simple, there are only two sexes, you are either male or female, man or woman. There really isn't a middle ground no matter how confusing it sounds.

There are differences of sexual development (DSD) but they all fall into one of two categories. Those with male DSD (men), and those with female DSD (women).

All this obfuscation by Tandora and the like is meant to confuse, derail and tire people out, or upset or coerce you with language to make you afraid of being "unkind" or just shut up because they are shouting loudest.

Do not be taken in by such tactics, biology really is as simple as man or woman, male or female. There is no third sex anywhere, in any species.

Gender nonsense is a construct with no real non-circular definition. What really matters in situations like this is sex.

When you end up with all this purposeful hiding of facts and scientific evidence, with people like Tandora spouting absolute twaddle, we end up in this situation - males punching females for sport televised to the world.

The more you learn about what is going on, the more you realise it is a one way street. All benefits flow in the direction of men to the detriment of women.

Go back to bed @Tandora 🤣🤣

It may well be Tandora's cunning plan - but it doesn't seem to be working. Mumsnetters stand with Angela Carini.

Am I being unreasonable?
Total votes: 1844

You are being unreasonable
5%

You are NOT being unreasonable
95%
2 days 16 hours remaining

Pronoun use in normal English is based on observable reality. If in doubt use 'they'. Given this competitor shows no compassion for the women he batters I'm going with standard English usage. There is no doubt in my mind as to sex based on all the many photos I've seen. None at all.

The solution to random people on the internet saying what they see here - a woman being battered by a man - would be not to compete. Given he's decided to go ahead, he's obviously fine with it.

It’s not really confusing.

XY DSD individuals can have abnormal male organs, due to receptor or enzyme deficiencies which means their male genitalia don’t develop in utero. Sometimes this leads to ambiguous genitalia or outright female appearing genitalia, but they are not “a bit female”, they boys whose penis has not formed properly.

For those who are sensitive to androgens, there will be obvious male development with puberty, when the (internal) testes mature.

You don’t know this man has a DSD and found out at 15.

Yes, many men with DSDs who were initially thought to be with girls change to live as the men they are. There are several accounts of this. The fact a man may not doesn’t garner any sympathy from me when it comes to sport.

He is a man in all ways that matter for sport.

The Algerian lad said he'd fight "anyone" on BBC, anyone except those with XY chromosomes like himself it appears..

It is not unkind. Sex matters!

It's unbelievable that after watching THAT we're expected to be KIND to the man battering the woman (and grabbing her breast at the end too when it's clear she doesn't want to be anywhere near him).

You might be interested in this, it's not quite how you frame it at all.

https://twitter.com/hoovlet/status/1819041282594873759?t=yC96eGZe_j20hFBDh5fIRw&s=19

I spotted the breast grab too, the male entitlement was off the scale. He really was expecting fanfare..

@Bex5490 this is a good video to watch if you are confused.

helplessandheartbroke - surely she doesn't have a penis? If she did, she would have been brought up as a boy and the whole issue wouldn't have occured in the first place?

As an aside, I'm also a bit turned off by how specifically horrifying everyone finds it that a woman has been punched in the face by a man in the name of sport. The horrifying thing for me is that someone has been punched in the face by someone else in the name of sport. Male or female, that's not sport, it's violence. The sooner Boxing disappears from the Olympics (2028 with a bit of luck) the better.

I would hope that people who are male with Difference of sex development who believed that they were female would have been thoroughly tested once they did not start menstruating. If they have not started to menstruate, and have not been checked out by a doctor, they are very much in a small minority of this group. Indeed, if this was true, would they be even competing in the Olympics?

I suspect that what you claim is not true today for the most part and is an exaggeration you are relying on for impact.

'Just seems like this discussion is lacking in empathy for how big a shift it must be to expect someone to either compete as a man or never compete again?'

As has been said before on this and other threads today, there can be all the empathy in the world for these athletes. However, they have been tested and found to be male people with physical advantage over female athletes. That is the unvarnished and unemotional reality. And while this might have been 'a big shift' for them, they knew this before they competed in the Olympics.

Many athletes in the world have to deal with the reality that there are situations beyond their control that means that they do not qualify to compete in a protected category that they wish to compete in. Such as the female category in this case.

What is it with this particular group of male athletes that means that they deserve more empathy than anyone else who don't qualify to compete in the protected category that they do not qualify to compete in?

What is it with this particular group of male athletes that mean that they should receive empathy when they have chosen to compete knowing that they have an advantage over the female athletes they are in the ring with?

For fucks sake.

SHE is female.
SHE has female reproductive organs.
SHE could carry a baby to term.

Look up Swyers Syndrome. This is where you start to see there is a wider spectrum of sex than just 'male' and 'female'.

What feels wrong to ME, and I'm not an expert, as I'm 99% sure most of you aren't either, is that she may well be in the wrong weight/ size category and if her levels were off then she shouldn't have competed.

But she hasn't 'gone through a male puberty'.

Be angry that they fucked up, but for fucks sake be angry for the right reasons and stop calling her a man.

It's been confirmed he has XY chromosomes, that's why he was banned last time. You're wrong.

I see what you’re trying to say @Littlepinkstarsbyradish it must be a tough road for those who are truly transgender/transitioning. I cannot understand your point though that females should have empathy for a biological man competing against them in any sport, never mind a physical contact sport where they could realistically have their career or life ended because of the real biological physical differences between a man and a woman. No one said they have to compete as a man or never compete again. I think the collective voice is that they do not compete with women, in the women’s sporting categories. “And the implication that this is male violence seems to me unfair” I think it 100% is male violence as that competitor had a choice not to get in the ring. They chose to use their physical advantage in that situation, knowing their own physicality and that of their female opponent. If that isn’t male violence, I don’t know what is. Very similar to the argument around safe spaces for women.

Every man competing is denying a woman the chance to compete too. Not much empathy for them around, is there. It's the opposite of inclusion, it's active exclusion.

But surely at the end of the day it has been proven the Algerian boxer has in fact XY chromosomes so in the in the interests of fairness & safety (particularly relevant to boxing) it would be vital he compete with all the other boxers in his weight who also possess XY chromosomes.

And all the females with XX chromosomes compete.

Regardless of how this individual is raised information has come to light that he has XY chromosomes so surely he should have had his entitlement to box in the female division declared null & void?

And transphobic responses like this are left to stand like they're absolutely reasonable and not a form of hate speech, but those of us that call out transphobic posts and comments have ours deleted."

'This is why I left Mumsnet originally, its clear transphobic bias coupled with its majority boomer transphobic community."

'Such a nasty, spiteful place.'

Wondering if you have a daughter and if you do and she got into boxing would you be happy for her to fight against this person.

He should provide a Swyers test to the IOC then, bet that's not been done. It affects a vanishingly small number 0f people.

Also can we stop using empathy please? None of us can empathise with this person, we may sympathise (in this case I don't given the non appeal to the previous banning which shows they know what they are). Empathy involves having shared an experience.

Is that you @Tandora 😜😜