To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

[AngeloMysterioso]

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

Helle.
It is absolutely 100% relevant to a thread where people are continuing to claim that having a male karyotype makes you a man. This is false: it does not.

As for the woman in question- you do not know what medical condition she has. You do not know what “test” she went under to determine she wasn’t female and had a “advantage”. It was reported this wasn’t related to testosterone. She is legally recognised as female in Algeria.

BBC Verify must have had a word. Too much truth telling was happening.

This is fair enough. I was only bringing up CAIS to counter the incorrect argument that XY always equals unambiguously male.

If these boxers have an unfair and dangerous advantage, it’s not specifically because they are XY.

But you’re right that that’s not important here, since they do not have CAIS.

I know this is a serious discussion but when you said that I had a mental image of a woman getting to the olympics only to be told…I’m really sorry, but you don’t qualify as you ‘tend to fatness!’

But having thought a bit more, I do think an other category would be fair similarly to the Paralympics. People whose bodies prevent them from competing traditionally should have a forum in which to compete if they choose to.

Yes the huge swing in rhetoric tonight from the BBC & the Guardian of all sources makes me think more in happening behind the scenes that the public are not yet aware of. It is very positive after a horrifc day for female sport.

So. You have a condition that means you are not going to be able to win an Olympic medal for boxing I sympathise. I have several such conditions myself (being super-short, physically weak, lazy, uninterested in being an athlete etc etc).

My DS is autistic. He loves rugby but doesn't understand the rules well enough to play in an actual match. He was in a Special Olympics swimming gala. He didn't win his heat because he decided it would be fun to switch it up and change from crawl to backstroke halfway through the race. I don't believe he should be an Olympic champion, he doesn't have what it takes for that particular competition. He is still a great human being.

So what? Join the 99.9999% of the planet who don't qualify to be Olympians but accept it. It doesnt mean you are allowed to cheat in that specific competition .

We have already had women suffering serious and life changing injuries as a result of being conned or coerced into engaging in dangerous sports with males. I am fearful that it will take a death to stop this madness.
I am sure Angela Carini was thinking the same thing.
That "fight" was really distressing to watch.

We are told not to trust our eyes. On the previous thread someone claimed to have googled photos and didn’t think they looked like men🙄.

I sincerely hope they are not treated as female by medical practitioners, that would be negligent, there can be serious health problems associated with internal testes.

While it would be convenient for us to know what the tests were, that may be giving away even more private information than they are allowed to. To be fair, I did think that maybe they gave too much private information with this statement, but then again, it was enough to understand what was happening.

I do have sympathy for any athlete who finds themself excluded from the sports category that they wish to compete in. However, in saying that, this occurs everyday in some form. People are excluded from sport based on reasons that are no fault of their own.

I use CIS to denote “born with a vag” but I’m happy to write “born with a vag” each time since CIS grinds your gears so.

Standing by patiently to read credible evidence that Imane Khelif was born a man.

People whose bodies prevent them from competing traditionally should have a forum in which to compete if they choose to.

Well, I suppose people with DSDs are free to set up a sporting institution just for people with DSDs if they want to. I could set one up for stiff, weak, extreme hourglasses who can't run. I'd just have to make sure nobody mistakes my boobs for the gymnastics foam pit.

You conveniently omit females. For the sake of clarity in all discussions regarding sex & gender male & female are the terms most enlightened, educated people use.
Just to help you "educate yourself" @Tandora
A woman is a biologically born female (chromosomes XX)
A man is a biologically born male (chromosomes XY)

No I haven’t: I’ve mostly been using VSC , sex variations, etc. I used intersex a couple of times , at which point I was told that “people with DSD” all find this offensive and it isn’t allowed: which is bollocks.

VSC is the most neutral, inclusive term.

It’s also ok to use intersex for a subset of people who embrace that language.

Some people may also prefer DSD although this is increasingly used less in formal contexts.

Hope that clarifies

Hostility on this thread is through the roof FFS 😂😂😂😂

The vag is not the relevant thing here. You don't box with your vag. It's the chromosomes leading to the male puberty. Surely everyone understands this by now?

You would have thought so. But apparently not

What happens if all Khalif’s opponents have to drop out for fear of injury or death? Feels like a bleak path to win gold. And a hollow victory. How can he/she get any real sense of achievement out of that? And how can the IOC condone it?

A tiny number of people have DSD's, they are the exceptions which prove the rule.

XY chromosomes are unambiguous indicators that someone is male. We don't let feminine men compete with women just because they don't fit a typically masculine stereotype.

The boxers advantage is specifically to do with their sex. Angela Carini has trained and boxed with women for years and said she'd never been punched so hard.

Or here's a thought, you could just use the normal terms woman, girl or female. It's not really a radical notion.

Blimey are they still going?
The irony of having Kelly Maloney on... who tried to strangle wife Tracey as I recall.

Sorry no -- Imane Khelif is not male, she is intersex. I am surprised so many don't seem to know the difference between DSD and transgenderism.

The real question for the IOC is whether her condition gives her an unfair advantage over other women.

statements are false.

I use female all the time, you will find several examples in this thread.

a persons sex cannot be reduced to their karyotype . Please read up on the biology of sex development. Most people with xy chromosomes will be biologically male, so will not develop in that manner and instead will develop a female phenotype.

You are hilarious. 'You don't box with your vaj.' If only.

XY chromosomes are unambiguous indicators that someone is male

this is not true.