To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

[AngeloMysterioso]

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

I think it's because it's written by Sean Ingle, he's on the Graun payroll but seems to be GC at least when it comes to sport.

I noticed that too.

Anglea has really opened some eyes.
Bless her, I hope she is OK tonight. She has shone a very bright light on the farce that is Olympic Female Sport.
She might not have the gold. But she will be long remembered 🥇🏆

Yes attention seeking.

pp yes nhs, education many in the budge up brigade, it’s frightening.

💯

Do you have evidence that these two male athletes were registered as female at birth? Please post this.

If you see hatred for people with Differences of sex development on MN, report it. If it doesn't get deleted, it is very likely that you have your very own definition of hatred that doesn't reflect that of the general UK population. Your posts this afternoon and tonight have very clearly have used a great deal of hyperbole and have lacked evidenced support.

You have also now confirmed that you do not understand or choose to ignore the safeguarding principles needed to protect female sports and you do not understand how female competitors did not consent to be in the boxing ring fighting male people with male pubertal advantages.

It truly doesn't matter how much emotional pressure you put on people to sympathise with your personal position, your position is one that has allowed harm to occur to a female athlete and you are trying to dismiss that harm and your own support of the position that allowed it.

Exactly.

Do you think there should be some type of ‘other’ category ?

I say this because I don’t want to watch someone born male (whether they knew it or not) beat up a woman.

But I also don’t want a person who grew up as a woman and has innocently put everything into a sport have to now fight a man.

Surely having CAIS would make you less strong than the average man?

If they have XY chromosomes then they are biologically male, no matter how they present.

Yes. I think though, annoying as it might be to have to keep repeating ourselves, it's really important to keep refuting the misinformation and just plain silliness that comes from posters like this.

A whole salad that doesn't once mention females but of course refers to males as they are allowed claim their sex.

Yes exactly

I think we agree here that she shouldn’t be competing in women’s sport, even if we disagree on exactly why.

I think the IBA statement is good. But I wish they could say what tests they did. I think that would help clarify things even further.

In any case, the situation we’re in is not okay. And while I feel sorry for both of them to an extent, the cast majority of my sympathy is with Carini.

Seriously. The hypocrisy is astounding. Never have I acted like a spokesperson or tried to control the language, unlike many other people on this thread, who have declared what all “people with dsd” think and tried to censor the language of intersex. I have simply pointed out there are different perspectives which there are, and that “disorders” is self evidently problematic.
”DSD” is ambiguous as it originally stood for disorders in sex development; that is why key policy papers now tend to use the terminology of VSC- variations in sex characteristics.

Do you think there should be some type of ‘other’ category ?

I used to, but not any more. Why should there be? Plenty of people have great technique but can't reach the top because their feet aren't flipper sized or their legs are short; they don't have the body required. Why should a DSD be viewed differently?

That doesn't apply to the differences between men and women because even when all else is equal, men have a comprehensive advantage including more testosterone, more haemoglobin, more fast twitch muscle for explosive power, favourable Q angle and so on. The stats also show the comprehensive advantages; when you break down male performance against female, you see it's far more than a matter of shape. Without sex segregation, there will be no women champions.

But no champions among people with DSDs? I don't see why that should be any different from having a body that developed along any other variation that meant you just haven't got the required physique. I don't build muscle easily and tend to fatness; that's my misfortune.

And again for all those reading along, these male athletes have been tested and found to have pubertal advantage over female athletes. That means that their bodies are processing testosterone and as shown today, pack a powerful punch. In fact, it could be found that that punch was more than 160% more powerful than their competitors punch.

Either way, someone leveraging in a person with the DSD that is known as CAIS can be said to be leveraging that group of people for their own political agenda. Because neither of these athletes have CAIS. Therefore, CAIS is irrelevant to this discussion tonight.

Those "feminists" must be on some male version of mumsnet. They certainly aren't on here as us females would give them the bums rush😁

Only people with XY chromosomes can have CAIS, they are males with a DSD.

No. They are legally recognised as female, and treated/ recognised as such by the medical practitioners who support them.. the nhs website refers to women and girls with CAIS. If you met a woman with this condition in real life you would have no question she was female. This is because, although women with CAIS have a male karyotype, they have a female phenotype. I suggest that you do some proper reading and educate yourself, before you just continue to offer strong opinions on this subject.

On the BBC news now. And they have Joanna harper - a man and Kelly Maloney another man. Are there no women in the world they could have asked? Just despicable.

WHy are you telling others off for using DSD and insisting it's now VSC when you've been using intersex all night? Make your mind up please.

Feminism is male supremacism, comrade. Penises are female. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Eurasia has always been at war with Eastasia.

And it's pretty clear that women are the subject of the Two Minutes Hate. Let men pummel them and take their sporting opportunities and that's feminism too, comrade. We love Big Brother.

And we have had a DSD activist post on FWR and give a more informed opinion on the language they and others with their medical conditions wish to use as terminology. What was very clear is the term intersex is offensive to a group of people who have been labelled this.

So, who should we listen to. You? Or a person with CAIS who has been a long term activist who came to FWR to correct posters from their educated and experienced perspective?

Normal service has returned. Thought the report I watched was an anomaly.

@Tandora what is sexual fascism?

What rights do trans identified people not have that the rest of society benefits from?

I know that isn't the purpose of this thread, but this is the second thread where you've posted but been unable to clarify what I think should be pretty simple questions for you to answer.

The lack of answer is shouting volumes.

These male boxers do not have CAIS.

Give up with your attempts to deflect to something they provably don't have.

They've been found to be male and to have an advantage over women. This is why the IBA banned them.