To not know when to just go 'fuck it, sack off the holiday and go home'

[kaleidoscoperuby]

We're on a UK holiday and DS14 is just vile. He had no complaints about the planned holiday when it was booked 18 months ago but has been saying recently he didn't want to go. We offered for him to stay with GPs, he said no. He's angry, rude, uncommunicative, storming ahead, tutting, sighing - generally has a face like thunder.

He's autistic but well travelled and we're pretty good at dealing with his needs - was all factored in.

We're away for 10 days with a week to go. I'm just thinking we should go home and be done. But it seems like such a waste. We're many hours from home.

When do you give up and go home? Is that just teaching them that behaving badly = getting what they want?

When do you stop travelling as teens are so vile? We have quite a few abroad trips planned over the next few years but I'm considering cancelling them all but I really love travelling (and we won't be able to leave DS at home for many years due to his needs so no holidays for anyone).

What does he like to do? If you’re in the UK & you think he’ll like it try a local holiday camp. If he’s behind then many will still consider him due to his sen

Yes and many of us are doing the same for our ND children in a completely different way to you. The test for me is: are everyone's needs being met? The OP's are not from what I read.

It's probably different for my DC because I'm physically disabled as well as ND. Frankly ND is the least of my problems. It probably forced DC to realise that their 'needs' were sometimes wants and no more important than anyone else's, regardless of any labels.

No mine aren’t always met but I’m the adult and the parent . I have a fully developed brain as I’m over 25 and I’ve had years to learn what helps and what doesn’t. I take time out to cope with promoting ND
children.

Interestingly my dc’s MH, ability to cope with ND, their thought for others etc have improved massively since we started parenting more supportively and with more understanding alongside less confrontation and challenge.

What kind of holiday is it?… Is there anything going on that he’s usually interested in?

My dc are massive mountain bikers, so atm, whilst I have a selfish 14yr old, out holidays are focussed on mtb. Which is fine as my 10yr old will do anything, and I love mtb myself.

I'm autistic and behave like this pre-meltdown. Everything is awful and everyone is idiotic. He's probably suffering a lot. Did you not realise that having children would mean you had to take their needs into account, whatever their needs might be? It was your decision to bring him into the world, not his.

What will he ‘actually’ do if he becomes distressed when on his own. Does he go in to crisis?… Will he damage items within the holiday home? Will he abscond and go missing?

I often find that dis regulated behaviours worsen with an audience.

That doesn’t mean you owe him your life 🙄

What do you do during a meltdown when you’re on your own?

I think when you say "teens are vile" you've got a bit of a problem.

Given everything you’ve said about his needs and his level of understanding, it sounds like your best option might be to all go home, and then take him to the grandparents for 3 nights in a day or two so the two of you get a break and some time to relax together. You could go away together if there’s budget for it, or just do nice things from home. It doesn’t sound like this holiday with the three of you is going to get any better, and it doesn’t sound like it’s his fault or anything you can fix. I’m sorry it’s so hard.

Wow....whomever suggested shouting at an autistic kid...?!?! Clearly doesnt get it. If I shout at my autistic child for his behaviour he will become even more disregulated and thks can last for days due to his hyposensitivity and how painful and overwhelming shouting feels to him. The knock on effect could be violent meltdowns or emotional shutdowns where they become selectively mute.

Secondly...am relieved to hear other parents of ND children see their child also unable to understand consequences and connect the dots between X behaviour and Y outcome. That is a huge issue for us!

Finally, here's an anecdote of taking ND children on holiday... I took my children on a long haul holiday at Easter. I was desperate to go, the trip had a lot of meaning for our family etc. Etc. I knew it would be hard for both of them as both are ND but particularly our autistic one. It was an amazing hol in many ways but it was also incredibly overwhelming for our autistic child who was highly disregulated by it for about 9 weeks....no word of a lie. His meltdowns became so distressing that his school, with our blessing, made an early help referral and we now have an early help worker. This is an example of why SEN parents often allow the needs of their SEN child to trump everything else....because the consequences of not doing so can be so far reaching, so exhausting and so bloody distressing that to do anything else doesnt seem worth it. HTH for those who are kicking the OP whilst she is down.

Sending so much sympathy OP. I think any parent of an ND child hears you loud and clear, and knows it's about so much more than a teen being 'horrible'.

I have a 20yo with ASD/ADHD. He is amazing. Parenting him is hard. I am so used, now, to the constant knot of anxiety in my gut about DS that I can't remember what it feels like to be relaxed or confident or carefree: I love him fiercely and am so so proud of him, and of everything he achieves, but life with a teen/young adult on the spectrum can be really tough. Balancing everyone's needs can be nigh on impossible. The anxiety and fear and (sometimes) resentment can be all-consuming.

I think anyone parenting a neurodiverse young person walks a constant tightrope: trying to facilitate positivity and achievement without overly enabling negative or destructive behaviour. I'm not sure whether any of us actually get it right. I know I don't. I'm trying my best but I mess up on an alarmingly regular basis!

I wish you all a calm night and hope you can come up with a plan that you feel comfortable with, whether that means sticking out your holiday or heading home early. But either way, please know that lots of us 'get it.'

Mine have solid mental health after some bumpy periods. They were gently challenged to keep expanding their comfort zone slowly and patiently and scaffolded as much as needed. Challenged not to run away from things they were afraid of or found difficult to cope with. Instead they were supported to do the smallest step forward at every turn. The comfort zones expanded and expanded. To watch confidence growing and their genuine pride and delight in their accomplishments was a beautiful thing.

Just as beautiful was watching how my DC responded when I became disabled. Then THEY became the teachers on a couple of occasions. 'Just five more steps Mum. Nearly there. You did it!' It made me smile seeing that what they had learned was their basic mindset now. Growth. Perseverance. Courage.

Not every ND child will be capable of this BUT a great many will be. We do those children a disservice telling them to be smaller than they are, to retreat, to be comfortable where they are. Just as great a disservice as telling them to run before they can walk. I feel strongly about this as you can probably tell.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I meant by challenge and thinking I mean confront. Confrontation is rare and only for unacceptable rudeness or unkindness. Challenge is about believing in our own capacity for growth. I suspect we probably have more in common than you realise, just different language to express it.

is that just teaching them that behaving badly = getting what they want?

Like having the holiday cut short so he can have his way? I would just remind him that as a family everyone has rights and it is now to his turn to shut up and let the family enjoy themselves in the same way you all shut up and adapt to the situation when he is enjoying himself.

I have a ND kid, we have always taken turns. I do a lot of things I don’t enjoy for him, so he also has to shut up and let me have a good time from time to time. When he wanted his own space as a teen I was happy to leave him home for the day but, he didn’t have a say on cancelling holidays, he always had an opinion that we considered if possible but calling the shots to ruin a holiday? Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

Fostering consideration towards the rest of the family made him a wonderful travel companion, it was also a good preparation to go and leave with a bunch of strangers at university because, remember, kids do not grow out of phases when someone deals, they do when someone deals with the behaviour, whether that is you, a teacher or his peers.

Our holiday with 15 year old ds certainly goes down as the holiday that he was miserable all the time for. I think the next one we actually took his Xbox on holiday with us just so that wouldn’t moan so much, but by then he was a much nicer holiday companion.

Can you do a tick sheet type schedule for him, saying what you are going to do, in which order etc, and build some downtime into it so that he knows exactly how his day will pan out. Tick off each section of the day as it happens.

This might lesson his anxiety somewhat.

I agree. If he wants to make it miserable for his parents, his parents can make him miserable. First would be the phone and since he is 14, I would tell him that next, if he doesn't act human, the wi-fi will go when he gets home. Then stick to it.
I would really like to know, when did the children become the bosses of the home? It doesn't matter if a child is NT or ND, they are not the boss. FFS

omfg

SEN mum here. Honest to god, the holy grail for us is cruising. And here is why:

You can make a sensory den from the bunk beds, with a curtain/towels

You can take any amount of luggage etc, there’s almost no limit

You park up, and get on the boat and you’re on holiday immediately

Theres loads of stuff to do, or not do

Buffet food for every taste including fish fingers 4 times a day with chips not touching the fish fingers etc

You can assign the ship as Guardian and leave them and go ashore and do stuff (this is awesome)

They can stay in the cabin and game/ipad and order room service and not interact whilst you do things and you’re all still nearby

It’s perfectly acceptable to have a drink in the day if they’re really getting on your tits

You get to see different places and don’t need to unpack over and over.

My ASD 13 year old is a controlling pain in the hole when he is stressed so I just put some credit on his cruise card and he can wander off and do as he pleases - swim, game, eat, whatever.

However he ALSO got an almighty bollocking when I got a call from guest services who told me he had been throwing bread off the balcony for the seagulls. The bread had landed in the balcony below. That had nothing to do with being autistic and was simply naughty dickishness.

I feel for you OP. I have had to warn my SEN kids repeatedly about how their need to control affects everyone else and appeal to “fairness” which is a big thing for them. And I absolutely insist that they hold it together/mask when required - restaurants, lifts etc. The world won’t stop for them and being able to behave in a socially acceptable way is a skill they’ve had to learn. It’s hard though.

Smash his stuff, really? Are you genuinely that stupid and unkind? @SanctusInDistress

I think you need to educate yourself on appropriate behaviour around children.

It's a shame the SEN boards have largely fallen out of use. They were the reason I joined Mumsnet but I rarely look at them any more.

Sounds like he's completely overwhelmed. Why can't he be left alone in the accommodation? Have you asked him if that's what he wants. I don't think you should cancel your future holidays but definitely don't bring him. It's not good for any of you. If you have to take it in turns to holiday then so be it. Thie is a ND thing, it won't change.

And op and her DH need to care for themselves and their relationship too. Noone gets to ruin everyone else's leisure time like this. They deserve and need to carve out happy moments, whether that's leaving him behind in future or perhaps bringing someone to care for him so they can get out and enjoy themselves.

It’s not about children being the bosses of homes but ND overwhelming homes. You can’t wave a wand and make it disappear.

Purposely making a ND child miserable is a ridiculous and unpleasant thing to suggest and the
”if he doesn't act human” comment vile. ND children are very much human as is their behaviour when distressed.

Acting/masking can be hugely damaging for ND people so it’s not as simple as that. Suggesting a pointless non immediate punishment for something that happened a while ago and a child can’t help is ridiculous .

It sounds like his parents very much take his needs into account, often at the detriment of them most of the time. His needs can’t pip theirs every single time, there are 2 of them and deserve to have some down time / compromise some of the time.