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AIBU?

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Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

483 replies

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 12:00

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=

Aibu to agree to an extent?

German refugee charity warns 'integration has FAILED'

In a bombshell interview, staff at a leading youth organisation in Germany have said the continuing influx of refugees means the system is at breaking point. They called for a 'freeze' in admissions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline&ns_campaign=1490&ns_mchannel=rss

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Flowers4me · 31/07/2024 18:31

ViciousCurrentBun · 31/07/2024 16:23

I have a foot in both camps my Mum was white and my Dad was from a commonwealth country and arrived as a documented economic migrant in the 1960’s.

The issue is both the far right and left. Now whilst the far right have had a riot and that is obviously bad the far left due to white guilt are really not helping the situation because every single time anyone shows any kind of concern they get shouted down as racist. It’s an actual problem.

The extreme left by shouting people down who have legitimate concerns have actually fuelled the rise of the far right. As unpalatable as that is it is most definitely an unintended consequence.

Well said.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:33

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:19

It is against research ethics, these are procedures researchers have to follow. What they found may well have application (although they themselves acknowledge the limitations of the study and warn against assuming causality), but my point is that they were not being prosecuted for the content of their study, it was because it was suspected they didn’t have ethical approval. They could seek it for a future study, and do the research if it passes.

I don't agree with this being against research ethics as surely all information gathered is good for society? Also who exactly decides if it's against research ethics?
Thanks for explaining @Tootjaskoot

OP posts:
Stephy1886 · 31/07/2024 18:33

Imagine believing what the daily Mail publish

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:35

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:33

I don't agree with this being against research ethics as surely all information gathered is good for society? Also who exactly decides if it's against research ethics?
Thanks for explaining @Tootjaskoot

All the decisions are taken by the Swedish Research Ethics Board etikprovningsmyndigheten.se/en/

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:36

Flibflobflibflob · 31/07/2024 18:19

Looks like the Germans are trying to get an agreement with Syria and Afghanistan to take back criminals. Clearly they think theres a problem.

I’m fine with that tbh, people who want to live in peace and get on with their lives and give their children a decent future should be embraced. If you move somewhere that provides you asylum and then proceed to commit crimes off you fuck.

Edited

This is it exactly. Surely those who move to a new culture or are seeking asylum should adapt & integrate to their new environment.
Why are some expecting their new country to change & adapt to the culture they are supposed to be fleeing & seeking asylum from?

OP posts:
Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:36

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:35

All the decisions are taken by the Swedish Research Ethics Board etikprovningsmyndigheten.se/en/

Thanks a million.

OP posts:
cardibach · 31/07/2024 18:39

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 18:21

I don't care about research ethics. I care about what their study clearly showed. My personal ethics are inconvenient truths should be given plenty of sunlight and scrutiny.

They themselves say t(e study doesn’t clearly show anyth8ng. Because the data emerged unexpectedly they weren’t able to check causality - which may be more to do with poverty than ethnicity. Or may not. That’s why you have to carry out studies within ethical frameworks.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:44

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/female-rape-victims-in-ireland-almost-treble-that-of-eu-counterparts/

Found the statistics from Sweden interesting & wanted to see how it fared in relation to the rest of the EU. According to this information Ireland has TREBLE the amount of rape victims in comparison to EU counterparts. That is shocking.

Female rape victims in Ireland almost treble that of EU counterparts - European Data Journalism Network - EDJNet

The number of female rape victims in Ireland is almost three times higher than the EU country average, new research by Noteworthy and the European Data Journalism Network (EDJNet) has found. Staggering statistics reveal how in 2022 alone, the average...

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/female-rape-victims-in-ireland-almost-treble-that-of-eu-counterparts

OP posts:
AngryBird6122 · 31/07/2024 18:51

@Mimififi you have done well here holding your own! This thread is wild with accusations of all sorts.

It's important to discuss these things!

Dulra · 31/07/2024 18:55

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:44

https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/female-rape-victims-in-ireland-almost-treble-that-of-eu-counterparts/

Found the statistics from Sweden interesting & wanted to see how it fared in relation to the rest of the EU. According to this information Ireland has TREBLE the amount of rape victims in comparison to EU counterparts. That is shocking.

You really need to read reports properly and stop misquoting them.

Dulra · 31/07/2024 18:55

AngryBird6122 · 31/07/2024 18:51

@Mimififi you have done well here holding your own! This thread is wild with accusations of all sorts.

It's important to discuss these things!

Mainly from the op!!

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:59

AngryBird6122 · 31/07/2024 18:51

@Mimififi you have done well here holding your own! This thread is wild with accusations of all sorts.

It's important to discuss these things!

Thank you😁 I'm still awaiting an apology from @Piggywaspushed for he stating I insinuated the man in Dublin stabbed multiple children & adults BECAUSE he was Algerian.
All I did was merely state the facts that he was Algerian & living in Ireland 20 years.

OP posts:
Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 19:01

Absolutely wild to see people mentally blow a fuse when they're given hard evidence that contradicts their narrative. Mind blowing. If someone can explain the difference between wilfully ignoring data and cult thinking, I'm all ears.

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 19:05

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 18:23

You may not care about research ethics. That’s up to you. But if you are a researcher in Sweden, you are obliged to follow them. It’s not a big deal, and I promise you it’s not the big government censorship operation you appear to think it is.

I promise you it’s not the big government censorship operation you appear to think it is.

Do find me the sentence where I say that.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 19:06

Midnightalready · 31/07/2024 19:01

Absolutely wild to see people mentally blow a fuse when they're given hard evidence that contradicts their narrative. Mind blowing. If someone can explain the difference between wilfully ignoring data and cult thinking, I'm all ears.

I found the article regarding the rapes in Ireland truely shocking, treble that of EU counterparts.
I've been following Ireland with interest as I have friends there.
Ireland also has the Gender Recognition Act in place for a number of years. Barbie Kardashian was placed in a women's prison for a long period of time although I believe has been moved to a men's unit now.

www.europeandatajournalism.eu/cp_data_news/female-rape-victims-in-ireland-almost-treble-that-of-eu-counterparts/

OP posts:
Dulra · 31/07/2024 19:12

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:59

Thank you😁 I'm still awaiting an apology from @Piggywaspushed for he stating I insinuated the man in Dublin stabbed multiple children & adults BECAUSE he was Algerian.
All I did was merely state the facts that he was Algerian & living in Ireland 20 years.

Just for accuracy your exact words were:

The Algerian man who stabbed the children & carers had been in Ireland 20 years & does this. I don't think he integrated too well somehow.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:12

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 18:59

Thank you😁 I'm still awaiting an apology from @Piggywaspushed for he stating I insinuated the man in Dublin stabbed multiple children & adults BECAUSE he was Algerian.
All I did was merely state the facts that he was Algerian & living in Ireland 20 years.

You can report me if you like but don't go around demanding apologies.

You missed out the bit where you said he hadn't integrated. That's kind of crucial.

You also raised it in the first place.

TinklySnail · 31/07/2024 19:19

Stephy1886 · 31/07/2024 18:33

Imagine believing what the daily Mail publish

Imagine thinking that every single DM article is fake 🤷‍♀️
Compare the DM to SM and the DM looks like the Telegraph.
Stop putting down DM readers. It’s not necessary and is another example of causing division.

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 19:19

@Mimififi Why did you mention the Leeds riots? I am trying my best not to jump to an assumption as to why you thought they were relevant to the thread, so it would help if you could explain.

Milkmani8 · 31/07/2024 19:25

TakeMe2Insanity · 31/07/2024 12:32

Well then your cousin is part of Germany’s problems!

What crap timing for this sudden concern both by the DM and you OP.

Immigration brings so much to a country. With the exception of maybe the Andaman Islands virtually all countries have ALWAYS had people moving to them. Immigration is part of all countries. Immigration is part of life. Countries don’t fail because of immigration, they fail because of poor decision makers in power.

Stop blaming people who aren’t white. Stop blaming muslims. Instead of just reading the DM read more widely, educate yourself (not EDL daily snippets) but actual books. Raise yourself.

You couldn’t be more wrong. My parents were refugees and came here from Latvia and Ukraine when I was a young child. Latvia has Russians as almost 25% of their population. They don’t want to speak the language, they don’t want to integrate, they want to be Russian but living in Latvia because the quality of life is better and they get an EU passport. It’s not only people of colour who are an issue with integration.

England is not allowed a national identity because people are embarrassed by years of colonisation all over the world, they are trying to redeem themselves by insisting that the immigration in this country is normal with huge swathes of the population not integrating into society. But in the case of Latvia and Ukraine they don’t want to be anything but to be their own country. They want their identity back, their culture celebrated and language to be used. The UK is so brainwashed by its past that people can’t see past ‘racism’ for everything. I don’t condone racism but if people want to immigrate they need to integrate into that society, towns that become enclaves and ghettos are what drives racism. The UK has so many different people and races within it that you can meet people from anywhere in the world which is fantastic, but they need to intergrate and so many do not. It is becoming an issue across the EU and people are not happy about it. Another point would be Brits living in Spain in their little English enclaves - again the Spanish aren’t happy about it even though they’re white. It’s not the colour that is the issue- integration and not fitting into that countries’ identity.

As a child I remember when I first went to school and going to the shops with my mother - seeing and meeting Indian and Pakistani people and black people for the first time - like a time warp, a Soviet child never seeing people like this in their life. The cultural shock for me moving here was incredible. These days I have friends and colleagues who are black and Asian but as I child I would have never imagined this, it was not a cultural norm for me.

TinklySnail · 31/07/2024 19:31

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 19:19

@Mimififi Why did you mention the Leeds riots? I am trying my best not to jump to an assumption as to why you thought they were relevant to the thread, so it would help if you could explain.

I assume because it was the Roma community and support groups have called on the government to address the barriers and disadvantages Roma people experience during child protection cases.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:33

There is a swathe of people on SM who want the riots in Leeds to be Muslim rioters. Despite evidence that they came from a range of backgrounds, this is being perpetuated. It suits a narrative that they believe it was under policed.

Roma and Romany are different by the way, as I understand.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:35

There are also people who believe Romani are Romanians and the Romanians in the UK are also often a target of hate or prejudice.

Lalalalalaaaa · 31/07/2024 19:37

More generally:

I do think it is important to have discussions on whether rising levels of immigration are leading to rising levels of crime / anti social behaviour. I have no problems having that discussion - there are issues with integration (although this is nothing new - I remember this being a major topic 20 years ago), language acquisition (which can lead to vulnerable groups becoming more isolated) and for the refugee population in particular there simply isn't enough support for the extreme mental health issues a lot of refugees face as a result of the experiences that led to their refugee status. There does also seem to be a growth of extremism in general. I think it's worse from the far right that the far left, but that might be my own personal bias. Is it worth saying that I would consider both fundamental Islamists and the EDF to be far right.

Where I think I fundamentally differ from the OP and others accusing 'lefties' of trying to shut dirn the conversation is that I'm not clear that it's actually immigration causing this rise in extremism as opposed to immigration being a convenient excuse for the nationalist far right to use to support their views or drum up more membership. I think it's deprivation and the fact that if you come from a deprived community where there doesn't seem to be any way our, or any hope of your situation improving, an extremist group giving you something to believe in and something to blame is very easy to cling to.

Now there's an argument that some of this deprivation comes because immigration means our resources are being spread too thin. I can't comment on Germany, but for the UK there are far bigger factors in play. Immigration, particularly non-EU immigration has spiked post COVID but the majority of this non-EU spike is people on work visas, or study visas (and their dependants). A work visa means immigration has reviewed the case and believes that this is someone we want here. A study visa means they're paying tuition fees etc (and if university a massive amount) and again the immigration has decided they want that person here. If we don't have the infrastructure in place to support immigration that the UK government is choosing to actively support (and gets tax revenue from) then that's a UK government policy issue ultimately. It's not an 'immigrant' problem or an integration problem.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 19:39

Ireland has low overall crime rates. SIX countries could even be arsed to hand over their data. Read the article you posted. Shame on all the otehr countries, too.

It's alarming - but I'm not sure what you think it is pointing to?

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