Page 38 | To not want to see t*ts on the beach??!

TittiesOutPutThemBack · 2024-07-30T11:34:31+00:00

Just that really! on holiday at the mo and I cant even count the number of times I have seen topless women sunbathing at the beach… next to kids!…on non-nudist beach! I really don’t want to see titties out in the middle of the day on top of that I don’t fancy my teenage boys or even my DH having a look at them either its obvious they’re coming from certain European countries ! Do they have no sense of what’s right or wrong ? AIBU?

ItsAlrightDarling · 31/07/2024 11:21

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:11

Mumsnet does confuse me sometimes.

Recent threads I have read were the one about the mother concerned about her daughter wearing a teeny bikini on holiday. How it was indecent and how the grandad was embarrassed.

Now on this thread nobody is concerned about their teenage daughters wearing only their teeny bikini bottoms minus the top. I mean lets be honest men sit on the beach and wear sunglasses and then have a good ogle safe in the knowledge that nobody can see them. That's just fact. So how come nobody is bothered about that? (I don't have any children so thankfully never have to worry about that)

I'm genuinely confused by the difference?

Secondly there was another thread on here about lots of mums were horrified to catch middle aged men ogling their daughter who were teens.

Yet on this thread the mums are all happy for their daughters to be topless in front of these middle aged men.

I can totally understand the ick factor of middle aged men ogling your teenage daughter so why is nobody worried about middle aged men being able to do it on the beach when they can get an even better look?

I'm genuinely confused.

I knew the OP was going to get a hard time when I read her post and yes I find it hard to believe she did not realise that Cyprus, Greece, France etc have billions of topless women. Love them or hate them most people know they are there. So I agree don't go if it bothers you. Plenty other places to go on holiday. Or stay in a private villa although no guarantees there if it has close neighbours.

So mums of mumsnet for a middle aged women who does not have to worry about men ogling her daughter please explain:

On the beach you are not worried about your daughters being topless even though the middle aged men can ogle them from behind their glasses.
In a teeny bikini that was too revealing and sexualised though that was a problem.
Also men ogling you teenage daughters fully clothed walking about was a problem.
I know I am generalising and some of the posters were outraged because their daughters were young teens of 12-14.
Seriously though - how does it work - if your daughter is 14 and a middle aged man leers at her in the street while she is fully clothed you are horrified but when you go abroad you don't mind her being topless? Honestly not trying to be goady just trying to understand. At what age are you comfortable with her being topless to middle aged men on the beach? Is it 16 she becomes a woman and so thus it's ok but at 14 she's a child so getting ogled clothed is worse?

Lots of people saying there just breasts what's the problem you man is seeing them in porn anyway. They are no big deal. Why the worry when your teen daughter wears a teeny bikini or why are you worried when they are ogled fully clothed?

Got a feeling I'm going to get a hard time with this question but it would be interesting to understand better.

Maybe they were different posters on the different threads? MN has a lot of users.

InsensibleMe · 31/07/2024 11:21

This will go well…

Bellaboo01 · 31/07/2024 11:22

TittiesOutPutThemBack · 30/07/2024 12:42

Oh interesting

so you’d like a 50yo male getting his bits out near a 5yo?
Would you be educating the toddler ?

Being topless isnt in any way slightly comparable to a man or woman walking around with their cock, balls or vaginas out on display.

Being topless on a beach is totally ok. They aren't there for sexual gratification of others. If your husband and kids view them like this and can't stop looking then clearly they shouldnt be on the beach as it is very normal.

What do they do if and when you are topless?

ghostyslovesheets · 31/07/2024 11:25

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:20

Yes I understand that of course.

It's just on this thread the majority of people are saying being topless is no big deal.

On the other threads the majority of people were saying middle aged men ogling their teen daughters in the street gave them the rage.

Surely some people are on both threads?

Show quote history

Because it’s possible to think BOTH things? Women can be topless on a beach AND men shouldn’t ogle teenage girls - or any women

unless you think sunbathing is inviting men to ogle and women shouldn’t complain

NonPlayerCharacter · 31/07/2024 11:28

There was a discussion about topless sunbathing last year where most people were against it and there were a zillion Hyacinth Buckets attempting to make it a class issue. Several posters said that this was why they only stayed in 12 star resorts because you got "a different type of clientele" and as far as I could tell, they weren't actually taking the ever living piss. Threads don't always go the same way.

But I would expect a thread about a 15 year old who deliberately left behind the bikinis she bought with her mother in favour of the very skimpy one she secretly bought on Shein to get a different reaction to someone who went to Cyprus and is horrified to discover topless sunbathing happening there to the point where they're talking about culture being forced upon them.

I don't, however, expect much good faith or sincerity from people who must tell us over and over how they're "genuinely confused" and "genuinely asking"...

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:29

ghostyslovesheets · 31/07/2024 11:19

Gosh it is confusing isn’t it - like maybe lots of different people with different views all post on the same forum

the issue with men is men’s issue - I’m not going to restrict mine or my daughter’s freedom because men are dickheads

Show quote history

All I was saying was there were loads and loads of mothers (and non mothers) horrified at middle aged men ogling their teen daughters in the street.

And here there is loads and loads ok with their daughters being topless in front of the same men.

I guess I am surprised not to see some posters saying yes I hate it when middle aged men ogle my daughter on the high street when she is fully clothed so no way am I giving the dirty old bastards a better look on holiday.

It's just two very different messages about young girls being looked at.

I know there is thousands of users on mumsnet I guess I just expected some users to pop up on both.

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 31/07/2024 11:30

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:11

Mumsnet does confuse me sometimes.

Recent threads I have read were the one about the mother concerned about her daughter wearing a teeny bikini on holiday. How it was indecent and how the grandad was embarrassed.

Now on this thread nobody is concerned about their teenage daughters wearing only their teeny bikini bottoms minus the top. I mean lets be honest men sit on the beach and wear sunglasses and then have a good ogle safe in the knowledge that nobody can see them. That's just fact. So how come nobody is bothered about that? (I don't have any children so thankfully never have to worry about that)

I'm genuinely confused by the difference?

Secondly there was another thread on here about lots of mums were horrified to catch middle aged men ogling their daughter who were teens.

Yet on this thread the mums are all happy for their daughters to be topless in front of these middle aged men.

I can totally understand the ick factor of middle aged men ogling your teenage daughter so why is nobody worried about middle aged men being able to do it on the beach when they can get an even better look?

I'm genuinely confused.

I knew the OP was going to get a hard time when I read her post and yes I find it hard to believe she did not realise that Cyprus, Greece, France etc have billions of topless women. Love them or hate them most people know they are there. So I agree don't go if it bothers you. Plenty other places to go on holiday. Or stay in a private villa although no guarantees there if it has close neighbours.

So mums of mumsnet for a middle aged women who does not have to worry about men ogling her daughter please explain:

On the beach you are not worried about your daughters being topless even though the middle aged men can ogle them from behind their glasses.
In a teeny bikini that was too revealing and sexualised though that was a problem.
Also men ogling you teenage daughters fully clothed walking about was a problem.
I know I am generalising and some of the posters were outraged because their daughters were young teens of 12-14.
Seriously though - how does it work - if your daughter is 14 and a middle aged man leers at her in the street while she is fully clothed you are horrified but when you go abroad you don't mind her being topless? Honestly not trying to be goady just trying to understand. At what age are you comfortable with her being topless to middle aged men on the beach? Is it 16 she becomes a woman and so thus it's ok but at 14 she's a child so getting ogled clothed is worse?

Lots of people saying there just breasts what's the problem you man is seeing them in porn anyway. They are no big deal. Why the worry when your teen daughter wears a teeny bikini or why are you worried when they are ogled fully clothed?

Got a feeling I'm going to get a hard time with this question but it would be interesting to understand better.

The problem is not what the women are wearing. How far do you think women (all females) should go to moderate what they wear, or moderate their behaviour so men don’t need to moderate theirs?

I’ve got a daughter. If a man behaves like this around her I’m going to challenge HIS behaviour. Not get her to change hers.

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 31/07/2024 11:31

If you go somewhere that doesn't prohibit topless women then you are consenting to the fact you might see topless women

Men aren't expected to cover up the same, you don't ask for them to let you "consent" to their toplessness

SocksAndTheCity · 31/07/2024 11:31

Christ, the word 'ogle' is doing some heavy lifting here.

Men who ogle women and girls will do so whether they have their tops on or not, assuming that by 'ogle' we mean 'look at'. As a PP posted, provided that's all they do why would anybody care?

My tits have been out on many beaches,.around many pools and also in New York, while walking on the High Line with a group of other topless women. What any men (or women) think about it all is not something that has ever crossed my mind, because I couldn't give a toss and I'm not compromising my comfort and enjoyment for some random bloke.

StarlightLady · 31/07/2024 11:32

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:11

Mumsnet does confuse me sometimes.

Recent threads I have read were the one about the mother concerned about her daughter wearing a teeny bikini on holiday. How it was indecent and how the grandad was embarrassed.

Now on this thread nobody is concerned about their teenage daughters wearing only their teeny bikini bottoms minus the top. I mean lets be honest men sit on the beach and wear sunglasses and then have a good ogle safe in the knowledge that nobody can see them. That's just fact. So how come nobody is bothered about that? (I don't have any children so thankfully never have to worry about that)

I'm genuinely confused by the difference?

Secondly there was another thread on here about lots of mums were horrified to catch middle aged men ogling their daughter who were teens.

Yet on this thread the mums are all happy for their daughters to be topless in front of these middle aged men.

I can totally understand the ick factor of middle aged men ogling your teenage daughter so why is nobody worried about middle aged men being able to do it on the beach when they can get an even better look?

I'm genuinely confused.

I knew the OP was going to get a hard time when I read her post and yes I find it hard to believe she did not realise that Cyprus, Greece, France etc have billions of topless women. Love them or hate them most people know they are there. So I agree don't go if it bothers you. Plenty other places to go on holiday. Or stay in a private villa although no guarantees there if it has close neighbours.

So mums of mumsnet for a middle aged women who does not have to worry about men ogling her daughter please explain:

On the beach you are not worried about your daughters being topless even though the middle aged men can ogle them from behind their glasses.
In a teeny bikini that was too revealing and sexualised though that was a problem.
Also men ogling you teenage daughters fully clothed walking about was a problem.
I know I am generalising and some of the posters were outraged because their daughters were young teens of 12-14.
Seriously though - how does it work - if your daughter is 14 and a middle aged man leers at her in the street while she is fully clothed you are horrified but when you go abroad you don't mind her being topless? Honestly not trying to be goady just trying to understand. At what age are you comfortable with her being topless to middle aged men on the beach? Is it 16 she becomes a woman and so thus it's ok but at 14 she's a child so getting ogled clothed is worse?

Lots of people saying there just breasts what's the problem you man is seeing them in porn anyway. They are no big deal. Why the worry when your teen daughter wears a teeny bikini or why are you worried when they are ogled fully clothed?

Got a feeling I'm going to get a hard time with this question but it would be interesting to understand better.

Not agreeing with all you say, but not wishing to give anyone a hard time. Here are my thoughts on your post.

l’m in my 40s now, brought up in France and as a teen went topless (still do if that’s relevant) on the beach with my late mum; also topless at the time but with shorts style bottoms. Elder sister was the same. I feel a teeny weeny bikini, often with “scaffolding type uplift” sexualises the body far more than someone topless in bikini pants.

If men and boys, who should be able to control inappropriate urges, get to see topless as the norm, they will soon get bored with it.

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:39

ghostyslovesheets · 31/07/2024 11:25

Because it’s possible to think BOTH things? Women can be topless on a beach AND men shouldn’t ogle teenage girls - or any women

unless you think sunbathing is inviting men to ogle and women shouldn’t complain

Show quote history

but everybody knows that men do discretely ogle on the beach from the privacy of behind their sunglasses. Maybe not every single one but lots do lets be honest. So without arguing about whether it's right or not right........my question is still why don't you mind it on the beach when you hate it in the high street?

I mean I would hate both if I had a teenage daughter but if I did and I had to pick one I would rather they were ogling her clothed on the high street than topless on the beach.

I mean if porn 'barely legal' and 'teen' are popular categories which we know they are then we know men like looking at young teenage looking girls naked. I know these girls are over 18 but they pick young looking ones don't they who look younger as that is clearly what the men desire.

Thus I'm just genuinely puzzled why men ogling young girls in high street equals YUK (which I agree with) but nobody is worried about it when the men do it on the beach.

ZiriForGood · 31/07/2024 11:40

Notgoingononlyfansyet · 31/07/2024 10:28

But not beaches. Is that fair? Is that freedom? Or is that putting the rights of a small group of people over a much larger group?

I don’t care enough, I would just really have appreciated the warning for my daughter who was embarrassed to see her aunts boobs. But I DO think it’s an important point. I don’t like the OP’s drama and xenophobia - they aren’t helpful. I think people should be able to sunbathe topless if they want to. Why shouldn’t they? But I also don’t think you should have to see boobs on the beach if don’t want to. AND you should still be able to go to the beach. I’m pro-freedom and pro-choice. And live and let live. I merely ask the same of others.

Show quote history

There are so many choices and preferences, it is practically impossible to accommodate all of them

Some people want to bath fully naked.
Some people believe genitalia should be covered.
Some wish full bikinis, but some don't consider thongs acceptable bikini bottoms.
Some believe full body should be covered and don't like seeing someone belly.

It just isn't practical to create and enforce so many different zones. Plus, there is no reason to do it, the countries in question have enough tourists with the offering they have now.

And now imagine combining it with other preferences.

Some people want to bring their dog.
Some people want a dog free beach.
Some countries mark some beaches as dog free and some as dog allowed.

Some people want activities, slides, cafes. Some people prefer quiet enjoyment. And therefore some beaches are lively and some are calmer.

It isn't physically possible to have a combination for everyone at every place. So each place has some options and you are voting with your feet and purse.

StarlightLady · 31/07/2024 11:42

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:39

but everybody knows that men do discretely ogle on the beach from the privacy of behind their sunglasses. Maybe not every single one but lots do lets be honest. So without arguing about whether it's right or not right........my question is still why don't you mind it on the beach when you hate it in the high street?

I mean I would hate both if I had a teenage daughter but if I did and I had to pick one I would rather they were ogling her clothed on the high street than topless on the beach.

I mean if porn 'barely legal' and 'teen' are popular categories which we know they are then we know men like looking at young teenage looking girls naked. I know these girls are over 18 but they pick young looking ones don't they who look younger as that is clearly what the men desire.

Thus I'm just genuinely puzzled why men ogling young girls in high street equals YUK (which I agree with) but nobody is worried about it when the men do it on the beach.

Show quote history

Men should not oggle! End of. But a bikini top is not an oggle preventer. Far from it. This is a male problem, where male behaviour is to blame.

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:43

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 31/07/2024 11:30

The problem is not what the women are wearing. How far do you think women (all females) should go to moderate what they wear, or moderate their behaviour so men don’t need to moderate theirs?

I’ve got a daughter. If a man behaves like this around her I’m going to challenge HIS behaviour. Not get her to change hers.

Edited

Show quote history

I understand your point of view but we know that men do look at young attractive girls. We also know most of them are smart enough to be discreet about it (obviously some are not discreet given the thread about men ogling young girls on the high street).
So if you know men are doing it (albeit discretely) why are you fine with it on the beach. Does that mean you are fine with them doing it on the high street too?

NonPlayerCharacter · 31/07/2024 11:43

why don't you mind it on the beach when you hate it in the high street?

I don't mind it on the street when they only glance and do not stare, harass me or act inappropriately. I'm not interested in policing their thoughts.

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:44

StarlightLady · 31/07/2024 11:42

Men should not oggle! End of. But a bikini top is not an oggle preventer. Far from it. This is a male problem, where male behaviour is to blame.

Show quote history

yes I understand and I agree it is horrible when men ogle. My question is mums were worrying about middle aged men ogling their daughters when they were out and about on the high street but here everyone seems fine with the same men having access to their daughters in less clothes.

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:46

NonPlayerCharacter · 31/07/2024 11:43

why don't you mind it on the beach when you hate it in the high street?

I don't mind it on the street when they only glance and do not stare, harass me or act inappropriately. I'm not interested in policing their thoughts.

but lots of mums were saying they were outraged with middle aged men looking at their teenage daughter on the high street (which I totally understand) but here everybody seems to be going yipee at the idea of their teenage daughter being topless to middle aged men. Perhaps in one case the men were more open about it and on the beach they are more discreet so out of sight is out of mind?

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:48

StarlightLady · 31/07/2024 11:32

Not agreeing with all you say, but not wishing to give anyone a hard time. Here are my thoughts on your post.

l’m in my 40s now, brought up in France and as a teen went topless (still do if that’s relevant) on the beach with my late mum; also topless at the time but with shorts style bottoms. Elder sister was the same. I feel a teeny weeny bikini, often with “scaffolding type uplift” sexualises the body far more than someone topless in bikini pants.

If men and boys, who should be able to control inappropriate urges, get to see topless as the norm, they will soon get bored with it.

Show quote history

thank you for trying to answer my question. I see where you are coming from.

ItsAlrightDarling · 31/07/2024 11:49

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:46

but lots of mums were saying they were outraged with middle aged men looking at their teenage daughter on the high street (which I totally understand) but here everybody seems to be going yipee at the idea of their teenage daughter being topless to middle aged men. Perhaps in one case the men were more open about it and on the beach they are more discreet so out of sight is out of mind?

Show quote history

I haven’t seen a single poster on this thread being joyful about their teenage daughters being ogled by middle aged men on a beach, can you point me to them? What I have seen is people saying that women are perfectly entitled to be topless on a beach, if they want to be.

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 31/07/2024 11:49

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:43

I understand your point of view but we know that men do look at young attractive girls. We also know most of them are smart enough to be discreet about it (obviously some are not discreet given the thread about men ogling young girls on the high street).
So if you know men are doing it (albeit discretely) why are you fine with it on the beach. Does that mean you are fine with them doing it on the high street too?

Show quote history

I’m not just talking about the beach, I’m talking about in general.

I was sexually assaulted when I was 17. I took it to court and won. He had to pay me a whole 100 in compensation and sign the sex offenders register for 5 years. I was wearing a heavy jumper and thick full length woollen skirt at the time. What I was wearing wasn’t the problem. So yes, I would challenge MENs behaviour towards women wherever.

and if my daughter wants to go topless on the beach, or in the park, or in the garden, or anywhere it’s legal I’ll support that because it’s not her behaviour that’s a problem.

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 31/07/2024 11:49

Oh and men ogling are the problem. Not the women going topless

NonPlayerCharacter · 31/07/2024 11:51

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:46

but lots of mums were saying they were outraged with middle aged men looking at their teenage daughter on the high street (which I totally understand) but here everybody seems to be going yipee at the idea of their teenage daughter being topless to middle aged men. Perhaps in one case the men were more open about it and on the beach they are more discreet so out of sight is out of mind?

Show quote history

everybody seems to be going yipee at the idea of their teenage daughter being topless to middle aged men.

Not one single person has said that. Are you following the discussion in any meaningful way? They are making the point that topless sunbathing isn't sexual or immoral and that men should be able to behave appropriately around it, as indeed they generally seem to do in places where it's normal. Do you truly not understand the difference?

Chrsytalchondalier · 31/07/2024 11:51

Bellaboo01 · 31/07/2024 11:22

Being topless isnt in any way slightly comparable to a man or woman walking around with their cock, balls or vaginas out on display.

Being topless on a beach is totally ok. They aren't there for sexual gratification of others. If your husband and kids view them like this and can't stop looking then clearly they shouldnt be on the beach as it is very normal.

What do they do if and when you are topless?

Show quote history

This is a really interesting point. To me topless is as bad as genitalia, it's just as sexual. If tits are just tits, then a dick is just a dick. I don't think any man is blase about breasts, or it wouldn't be a thing!

SnakesandKnives · 31/07/2024 11:51

I was definitely not ogling the line up of male swimmers in the olympics last night. Honest. No really.

KevinCostnersMyBodyguard · 31/07/2024 11:52

NonPlayerCharacter · 31/07/2024 11:28

There was a discussion about topless sunbathing last year where most people were against it and there were a zillion Hyacinth Buckets attempting to make it a class issue. Several posters said that this was why they only stayed in 12 star resorts because you got "a different type of clientele" and as far as I could tell, they weren't actually taking the ever living piss. Threads don't always go the same way.

But I would expect a thread about a 15 year old who deliberately left behind the bikinis she bought with her mother in favour of the very skimpy one she secretly bought on Shein to get a different reaction to someone who went to Cyprus and is horrified to discover topless sunbathing happening there to the point where they're talking about culture being forced upon them.

I don't, however, expect much good faith or sincerity from people who must tell us over and over how they're "genuinely confused" and "genuinely asking"...

you're missing the point of my question. If mothers are upset because their daughters are wearing secretly bought teeny bikinis why are they not worried about them being topless.

I've already said I agree the the OP was unreasonable to not know that beaches in Greece, Frances etc are popular for topless sunbathing and to go somewhere else if it's a problem.