To not want to see t*ts on the beach??!

[TittiesOutPutThemBack]

Just that really!

on holiday at the mo and I cant even count the number of times I have seen topless women sunbathing at the beach… next to kids!…on non-nudist beach!

I really don’t want to see titties out in the middle of the day

on top of that I don’t fancy my teenage boys or even my DH having a look at them either

its obvious they’re coming from certain European countries ! Do they have no sense of what’s right or wrong ?

AIBU?

Only people I know who say 'titties' are teenage boys and very immature 'grown' men.

Which one are you @TittiesOutPutThemBack ???

So it's ok to get your tits out for people paying but not because you just want to on a beach where it's allowed??

Nope. Get em out wherever the people who encounter them expect and consent to do so, and have the choice to access the same facilities without seeing them if they want to.

Your freedom TO does and should not take total precedence over my freedom FROM.

I have not said anyone should cover anything. I have only pointed out the inconsistency and lack of choice, and expressed MY PREFERENCE not to see them on beaches. And that this is peculiar to beaches.

Does being body positive mean I have to be completely comfortable with total nudity everywhere? No. My line is just different. It’s about consent and choice. Beaches provide neither. Strip shows do. You even need a licence for nudity.

I’m not offended. I have a preference and would like a choice. That’s not unreasonable or dramatic.

If I don’t like topless beaches, I just…..can’t go to the beach? There are no boob-free beaches.

Sucks to be you, I guess. Stick to covered swimming pools.

I do think there is some judgement about the strip, here.

Well, you've told topless sunbathers that they're tacky and less acceptable than your charity strip shows, so...tit for tat? Hahaha. Clearly you aren't as fine with boobs as you pretend to be, so look to yourself for answers on that one.

(It's amateur burlesque, isn't it? That can be very therapeutic and beneficial for some women, but in many cases, it does also attract people who only think they're liberated and body positive and still can't grasp enjoying your body for yourself non-sexually. I know it quite well.)

Beaches are open, natural, public areas. They aren't the same as artificial, private, enclosed ones developed to serve humans in a certain purpose. And in some places, it is a cultural norm for women to be topless in them if they want to be. You can argue against that until you're blue in the face but that's the fact. No reason why it should be any more uncomfortable a discussion with your daughter than your performances. Bodies feel good when they are unencumbered, free, and many people enjoy the sensation of sun and water. Is this really so perplexing to you? You're so body positive but you can't understand actually enjoying bodily sensations, for yourself?

Get em out wherever the people who encounter them expect and consent to do so

That would be European beaches. It's a cultural norm that you accept when you go there. Don't like it, don't go. Find a hotel with a private pool or beach and a tops on policy. They exist.

Yep.

Because everyone one of the people who saw them expected to, chose to and consented to in advance (and yes paid to. To charity) And could have gone to another show if they didn’t. You even have wear nipple covers if the venue doesn’t have a licence for nudity. Do you get that on a beach? No.

Choice. It’s about choice and preference. That’s the difference.

And your preference is obviously a private hotel with a tops on policy. So why don't you just go there?

What, entire countries have to change their cultures and women have to deny themselves a basic pleasure because of your reluctance to make a choice that suits you?

It’s not only beaches. You see topless women in public parks, at Coachella, around lakes and rivers etc.

I’m not suggesting context is irrelevant - you wouldn’t expect to see people topless in a restaurant or cinema and it would be weird if someone was. But in places where the primary purpose of being there is to relax, snooze, swim, enjoy the sun, tan etc it’s not remotely unusual for people to be topless. For many people, it enhances those activities.

I also doubt there is a ‘majority preference’ as you suggest in places where being topless is common. Even if more than 50% of women aren’t going topless themselves, they don’t all necessarily object to it. I don’t go topless on beaches but I don’t care if other people do. It’s easy to assume one’s own view is the majority one but you need evidence to support that. This thread alone suggests at least anecdotally that objecting to toplessness is a minority view!

But not beaches. Is that fair? Is that freedom? Or is that putting the rights of a small group of people over a much larger group?

I don’t care enough, I would just really have appreciated the warning for my daughter who was embarrassed to see her aunts boobs. But I DO think it’s an important point. I don’t like the OP’s drama and xenophobia - they aren’t helpful. I think people should be able to sunbathe topless if they want to. Why shouldn’t they? But I also don’t think you should have to see boobs on the beach if don’t want to. AND you should still be able to go to the beach. I’m pro-freedom and pro-choice. And live and let live. I merely ask the same of others.

Or is that putting the rights of a small group of people over a much larger group?

What "rights" are we talking about and what groups of people? You have the right to go or not go, and to have your top on or off. When entire countries have a norm about what's acceptable on their own beaches, what "right" are you being denied as a visitor there and why do you think you're in the majority group?

Do you also have issues with women breastfeeding in public OP?

I live in London next to a big open park, there are often women sunbathing topless there on a sunny day 😱.

They are just boobs. You see your own every day, your husband I’m sure has seen plenty and your child has seen them since the day he was born.

Boobs aren’t offensive, I don’t understand where you’re coming from at all.

Why are you acting like you don’t already have this choice?

Go to a country where it’s illegal to be topless. That is the solution to your problem. Freedom from nudity for you, freedom to be nude for others.

It would be completely inappropriate and disrespectful for a woman to travel to Dubai and go topless on the beach. It’s equally inappropriate and disrespectful to go to Cyprus and complain about people being topless. You respect the customs and culture of the place you’re visiting and you don’t expect others to adhere to your personal preferences.

Because the reason women go topless on the beach is to get a tan so there is a difference between doing it topless and topfull.
The same reason why some men opt to wear tight, skimpy swimming trunks, which acceptable on the beach but not in other environments.
If a man was walking around Central Park in skimpy trunks, people would judge or even would be alarmed.
Same if a man decided to wear tight trunks in a soft play or an office.
There are different social norms for different places.
Most people who object to topless beaches won’t choose to go there so the chances are that most ‘top full’ people on a topless beach, have no objection to it, even if their choice is to cover up.

Yeah. I do think the Germans are a bit, um, odd.

Orderliness is a must in Germany, apart from unruly body parts which must be on display.

I blame Freud and Jung.

Why? Freud was Austrian and Jung Swiss.

Pro your freedom and pro your choice, it appears.

Oh I did at 14, when we lived in Portugal. We noticed some pervy men on a small cliff with binoculars clearly trying to get a look and my mum threw rocks at them. They ran away 😅. Women (and girls) are in control of their bodily autonomy, or should be!

OP, your fingers are turning blue from gripping that pearl necklace....
Let go already.

Yep. If you can't deal, don't go.

😂

Stop sexualising women breasts.

If you don't like it, don't look.

You're the one with the problem, you're the one who needs to change his own behaviour.

There's nothing dirty or wrong about women's bodies so take your teenage boy, summer holiday nonsense and stick it.

Oh wow 😆 the sheer entitlement of going on holiday to a European country and being this outraged by some boobs on a beach. First time abroad OP? Maybe do a bit of research in advance next time 😂

Mumsnet does confuse me sometimes.

Recent threads I have read were the one about the mother concerned about her daughter wearing a teeny bikini on holiday. How it was indecent and how the grandad was embarrassed.

Now on this thread nobody is concerned about their teenage daughters wearing only their teeny bikini bottoms minus the top. I mean lets be honest men sit on the beach and wear sunglasses and then have a good ogle safe in the knowledge that nobody can see them. That's just fact. So how come nobody is bothered about that? (I don't have any children so thankfully never have to worry about that)

I'm genuinely confused by the difference?

Secondly there was another thread on here about lots of mums were horrified to catch middle aged men ogling their daughter who were teens.

Yet on this thread the mums are all happy for their daughters to be topless in front of these middle aged men.

I can totally understand the ick factor of middle aged men ogling your teenage daughter so why is nobody worried about middle aged men being able to do it on the beach when they can get an even better look?

I'm genuinely confused.

I knew the OP was going to get a hard time when I read her post and yes I find it hard to believe she did not realise that Cyprus, Greece, France etc have billions of topless women. Love them or hate them most people know they are there. So I agree don't go if it bothers you. Plenty other places to go on holiday. Or stay in a private villa although no guarantees there if it has close neighbours.

So mums of mumsnet for a middle aged women who does not have to worry about men ogling her daughter please explain:

On the beach you are not worried about your daughters being topless even though the middle aged men can ogle them from behind their glasses.
In a teeny bikini that was too revealing and sexualised though that was a problem.
Also men ogling you teenage daughters fully clothed walking about was a problem.
I know I am generalising and some of the posters were outraged because their daughters were young teens of 12-14.
Seriously though - how does it work - if your daughter is 14 and a middle aged man leers at her in the street while she is fully clothed you are horrified but when you go abroad you don't mind her being topless? Honestly not trying to be goady just trying to understand. At what age are you comfortable with her being topless to middle aged men on the beach? Is it 16 she becomes a woman and so thus it's ok but at 14 she's a child so getting ogled clothed is worse?

Lots of people saying there just breasts what's the problem you man is seeing them in porn anyway. They are no big deal. Why the worry when your teen daughter wears a teeny bikini or why are you worried when they are ogled fully clothed?

Got a feeling I'm going to get a hard time with this question but it would be interesting to understand better.

@KevinCostnersMyBodyguard maybe, just maybe, those who worry about their daughters wearing an inappropriate bikini, and those who don't mind if their daughters are topless on the beach are different people?!

Gosh it is confusing isn’t it - like maybe lots of different people with different views all post on the same forum

the issue with men is men’s issue - I’m not going to restrict mine or my daughter’s freedom because men are dickheads

Yes I understand that of course.

It's just on this thread the majority of people are saying being topless is no big deal.

On the other threads the majority of people were saying middle aged men ogling their teen daughters in the street gave them the rage.

Surely some people are on both threads?