New career working Christmas as single parent

[ItsSpookySeason]

I have just finished a nursing degree and I'm waiting on my pin coming through before starting my new job. I've worked hard to get to this point as a mature student but unfortunately during my training my husband divorced me and has now moved to another country with OW.

We have 5 children under 12 who he now sees twice a year. I have managed during my training using paid childcare and have been fortunate that I have a family member who has also helped by looking after my children, but they are now also moving away to start a new job so I will solely be relying on paid childcare.

I am extremely worried about working 12 hour shifts over Christmas - I don't object to working Christmas eve / Christmas day / boxing day at all but I have no idea how I am going to sort childcare. I don't want to raise this as an issue as soon as I start my new job, I don't want to make a bad impression nor do I think I deserve special treatment as a single parent, but none of my childcare providers work Christmas day or boxing day, I have already asked!

How does anyone in a similar situation manage? I was previously self employed, and married, so have never had to worry about this before! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

@MrJeremyFisher I'm very aware that most of this that contribute to these discussions on mumsnet are only concerned with "their" rights, and don't think about the special status of children. Not sure that is in fact representative of mumsnet as a whole, and whether it is or not, I still think it's wrong.
@JudgeBurrito Well I'm saying the children should have that right. Do they currently? Clearly not, but it obvious that I understand that from the last hour or so of our discussions. Obviously from hindsight, anyone's Christmas could be their last - including young children. I was responding to pp pointing out very special circumstances that were known about that did not involve children. That point still stands. And as for people having 14 dying grannies during their career, that would be both gross misconduct and would mean they were liable to be struck off by the NMC. I don't think many people would risk it for Christmas. Thankfully, I have a higher opinion and respect for nurses than you.

But youngish children should still take priority at Christmas time.

By their parents, yes. Not by anyone else. You prioritised Christmas by taking a job which means you aren't required to work Christmas. If you had chosen to take a job that required you to work Christmas, then you would be expected to work Christmas. The result of your choice isn't your employer's responsibility to change, and it definitely isn't your colleagues. In NHS hospital wards (and I imagine in most other 24hr services), the requirement to work Christmas isn't a secret. There are plenty of other Mon-Fri-with-no-bank-holiday roles available for nurses which the OP will be able to apply for after her preceptorship training. But a nurse choosing to work on a ward is choosing to occassionally work Christmas. It doesn't become anyone else's problem to fix.

@LewishamMumNow And as for people having 14 dying grannies during their career, that would be both gross misconduct and would mean they were liable to be struck off by the NMC. I don't think many people would risk it for Christmas. Thankfully, I have a higher opinion and respect for nurses than you.

You also clearly don't really have a working understanding of the public sector, so I'm bowing out now.

You could possibly plan for using a service like this:

https://www.greycoatlumleys.co.uk/blog/2023/12/christmas-childcare-tips-on-hiring-a-nanny-for-christmas

I'm crossing my fingers for you that you won't need to! It would be very expensive, but hopefully only once.

You sound like a lovely sister and mother.

Christmas is not just the day itself so you can make the most of the time you do have with your lovely children!

@LewishamMumNow I worked 8 Christmases in a row because of people who think like you do. Too right I now stick up for my “rights” as an employee, which are the ones that matter to an employer. Employers should not have any liability to or duties towards random children.

You might not like it, but I have the right to be treated fairly by my employer, and that does not equal my employer telling me I have to work 5 Christmases to Susan’s 1 because they have a duty to Susan’s children!

If children have a right to Christmas magic then it is for THEIR PARENTS to provide it, not the parents’ employers or their random colleagues.

Another saying congratulations. Well done.

What about someone in your uni cohort? You must have been friendly with someone.

When you start ask around your new colleagues, they may have teenage or uni age children looking to make some money.

Approach this as something you will solve, and you will.

I mention children of staff because when you have grown up with mum and dad working shifts you grow up knowing people work around the clock so you don't see Christmas as a day when everyone is off.

And nurses will leave that trust for other jobs. No one wants to be told an unfair share of the shi* t shifts. Remember nurses also work 24/7 the rest of the year. Including the days you are off work (with your children or grandchildren if you have any).

More nurses than you think of tbh.
More than one nurse will concider a 3rd child if it means Christmas off duty another 10 yo.

It would never work if nurses with children under 10 yo have special rights at wards - and whabout it fire fighters, ambulance staff, doctors, hospital kitchen staff, midwives, police officers, care home staff and so on? Lots of people work Christmas Day.

@MumChp Clearly I don't think children of nurses are somehow special compared to children of other people working in 24/7 services! And I agree with you about different Trusts - to work it would need to be a national policy to avoid the issues you raise.
I'm sorry you worked 8 shifts in a row - that is unfair and wrong, and not what I am proposing. But I do think you should work proportionately more (assuming you are not the parent of youngish kids) to facilitate children having Christmas with the families.
All those people saying kids are the parents responsibility, well yes, obviously, when it comes to providing presents and all the usual trimmings, but no one works in a vacuum. For children to be with their parents, the parents need to be allowed the time off work at Christmas. And yes, that involves others making sacrifices - because the well being of children involves everyone doing that.

How utterly entitled and ridiculous.

Christmas morning "magic" is not a "wellbeing of children" issue that society, employers and co-workers need concern themselves with.

Don't be ridiculous! It's a fair workplace and everyone is entitled to being treated fairly, not acquiescing to those with children.

Think my reply went missing but it was basically a, you can't seriously expect people to be responsible for how magical their colleagues children's Christmas Days are.

I suppose every parent of young children should also be entitled to have their children's birthdays off. And Mother's Day, Easter, and all of the summer holidays so those special children can have special memories with their families so that they don't grow up feeling like they're not any more special than anyone else.

OK, so here’s a thought. If employers know they have to treat parents of under 10s as unavailable for work on Christmas Day, then they need to ensure that their ward isn’t solely staffed by parents of under 10s. They’re under a duty to the children now remember, to safeguard their right to wellbeing magic.

That means they have to ask at hiring stage if the applicant is a parent of under 10s. And if so, a childless person or older parent will get the job instead.

Now oddly, I suspect parents of under 10s would complain about being treated differently to other employees when it doesn’t benefit them. They want to be treated “identically” to the childless when it comes to hiring. But when it comes to working conditions and getting a benefit, then they want to be treated “equitably”.

This is another reason why children should be irrelevant in the workplace. The only people who are responsible for safeguarding magic are the parents. If you genuinely think that it’s a wellbeing issue then parents of under 10s have no business working these jobs, because it’s THEM that are harming their children. Not random colleague Mary who has no relationship with them and owes them bugger all.

You also said it was wrong that I worked 8 Christmases in a row @LewishamMumNow but that’s what you’re advocating for - childless people doing more Christmases because they should prioritise random children over their own families (even though their parents are allowed not to prioritise their own kids for some reason).

👏 👏

Brilliant post!

I haven't worked eight Christmas Days in a row as a nurse.
It would NEVER happen. I would have laughed and walked out the door. Not looking back.

Lack of skilled nurses so why should I accept a treatment like that? (And I my own children and family as a first).

I have worked quite many Christmas in my years of employed by the church. We were few to cover and we knew but it wasn't 8-12 hours so it wasn't too bad.

It would never work to let 24/7 trusts let parents off the all sh* t shifts.

I mean when I apply for jobs I look at the job description to figure out if it's a suitable role for me. If the department was full of parents of young children that require Christmas magic would that then be written into the job description? Must be available to work every Christmas Day to "protect" other people's kids?

Suppose you would have to ask at the interview.

A ward would have a hard time to hire nurses on those conditions. Of course not the nurses with children under 10. And they would complain over not being hired...

Well said, @fitzwilliamdarcy

It’s unfortunate this has been derailed by an entitled parent who thinks her colleagues owe her children a “magical Christmas”. The OP isn’t in that situation. She has worked her backside off despite facing huge challenges and has achieved a degree which is amazing. She is genuinely struggling with childcare, not fussing over opening presents and stockings. @ItsSpookySeason if I were your colleague, I’d swap with you in return for a different favour. It may well be someone on your ward wants a longer summer holiday or something and they’ll be open to swapping. Your situation of 5 children and no support is unique and there will people who don’t mind helping especially if you can offer something else in return.

If you offer enough in return it's no problem to swap Christmas Day. But it's often expensive. Happens every Christmas.

I wonder if these people who think creating a rota who gives in to everyone's whim, opinion and want have ever actually tried to.

Have they ever tried to be fair, reasonable and considerate to a team who are constantly asked to give give give.

I wonder if they're the ones who think 'management' have the answers to everything and can conjure answers out of thin air.

The rota is hard enough throughout the year.. Christmas and NY is a bloody nightmare.

I thank my stars I'm retired from it all.

Totally agree with you @Houseplanter - I used to be in charge of rotas and nobody was ever, ever happy.

I was often changing schedules multiple times a day to try and suit people's needs. "Luckily" I worked somewhere where everyone had to do Christmas Eve and Boxing Day so nobody could kick off over those days at least 😂

I agree. I would help out out in circumstances like these and it's clear that OP does not intend to ask for the same every single year.

I’d have a discussion with your manager when you start . It won’t be forever you’re in this position and if they value you and want to keep you employed, they will find ways to support. If they don’t- work somewhere else coz they will be difficult and unsupportive all the time eg when kids are ill.

if a manager can’t show compassion and support to you after what’s happened they really shouldn’t be in charge of people. Also the harsh comments on here show how we’ve accepted just a harsh, unkind culture within NhS and some areas of nursing.

yes other people have children but not everyone has absolutely no support. Sometimes in life people need a leg up and if we can help them we should!