Conversations around race with your partner

[ireallyneedsuppport]

NC for obvious reasons

I'm in an interracial relationship and struggling with DH's reactions to racist incidents.

Recently, a member of his family used a horrible racial slur during an altercation. Instead of being disgusted, my husband's initial reaction was to say the other person "shouldn't have started it" and that if you provoke someone, you should expect them to try to hurt you and that see, you're hurt clearly it worked to try and get to them with the racial slur.

I had to push hard for him to finally acknowledge that what his family member did was horrible. What's even more troubling is that this family member has dated people of color in the past.

This isn't an isolated incident. Whenever there's an issue regarding race, my husband tends to minimise it instead of showing sympathy for the victim. He often sides with or makes excuses for people who have said or done racist things. When we discuss, it always ends in an argument.

As a person of color myself, I find his reactions deeply upsetting and hurtful. It makes me feel unsupported and invalidated in our relationship. I'm not sure how to address this ongoing issue with him or if it's even possible to change his perspective.

Has anyone dealt with a similar situation in an interracial relationship? How did you handle it? Any advice on how to approach this with my husband would be appreciated.

I think this may be the root of it. I'm white and didn't understand micro aggressions or most of anything to do with racism really. I thought you just don't use offensive terms and don't discriminate in hiring people etc. I e learnt so so much reading posts from places like Mumsnet. I e noticed since I started to understand more that a lot of people I know who claim not to be racist maybe are guilty of these micro aggressions but they don't think they are racist. They think they deserve acknowledgment for not being racist because they have a black friend or whatever they say. Like it's social points scored for being inclusive. But why would you get social points for having diverse friends? It's because deep down they do think they are better and they are being kind/charitable/a good person by accepting the non white person into a role they would usually have a while person in.

That's my take on it anyway. But as I said I white and I know I don't fully understand

He isn’t going to change so you need to leave him.

@ireallyneedsuppport

Sounds about right. The next level is turning it all on you and accusing YOU of racism. Your situation is not at the peak yet. It's really confusing feeling loved and cared for by someone in many ways but also having to deal with this. When you try to think through it right now, you will say to yourself, he just doesn't understand. Needs education. Not everything is bad and all relationships are imperfect. But slowly it will be death by a thousand tiny cuts and you will need a long time to heal from it. Sending you hugs.

I had a Polish boyfriend years ago. We'd been together for 3 years and the relationship was serious enough that I'd visited his family in Poland and was gearing up for him to formally meet my parents in London, and visit my grandparents who still lived in our ancestral country.

Polish BF expressed extreme reluctance to travel to our ancestral country on the basis that he was worried about being attacked by lions and tigers in the street, or by one of the savage locals Not by me of course, I wasn't one of "them".

Some people on this thread will understand, others will think I am mad, but from that point I saw him differently because he'd revealed himself to see me differently through what had seemed like a tiny issue. I didn't try and convince him to go, I just continued to spend Christmas with my family overseas and he went to Poland for the holidays instead of coming with me.

On our return in the new year, I faded the relationship out to its eventual end, as that incident showed me how entrenched some views could be. Overlooking the first thing would likely lead to other offences in future that I wasn't prepared to deal with in my personal life; I get enough of that every time I walk out of my front door.

I guarantee this is far from the first time your DH has revealed himself, this won't be the first time. It'll just be the latest in a long line of cuts related to race. Ask yourself how many more insults you are willing to tolerate for the sake of "love", and think about exactly what that love is doing for you, and your life.

Sorry OP, but how much more are you willing to tolerate, before your self esteem is totally eroded, and you are made ill with the stress of it all? He really has not got your back at all regarding this, and will likely never understand the impact that the colour of your skin will have on your life. I have never said it before on here, and see it said far too quickly sometimes, but you really should not stay within this union. It is not serving you well.

I started a post saying almost exactly this but I wasn't sure how to word it without causing offence. Now I've read all your comments and see that he's used the excuse, I'm going to try my best, please know I mean no offence.

If I was to ever get into an altercation with a complete stranger who started it, I would want to say the most hurtful thing I could to them. This could be based on appearance or clothing or similar. However, I know that race shouldn't be one of the things that I say and just simply shouldn't be mentioned.

His relative either doesn't realise this or doesn't care. I don't think it means he automatically holds racist beliefs, more that it means he doesn't understand the issue of race. Probably thinks it's a small side issue rather than something that affects every waking moment of POC. Sounds like he and your husband think it's akin to saying "you fat cunt" or "you homeless tramp".

It's so important to get this nailed down before you have children, he needs to understand how they will be affected by his views and the world you'll all live in. Ask him how he would feel if this relative said it to one of your kids?!

I do think white people live in a bubble of unawareness around racism. They either think it doesn't exist or that they could never be racist but the truth is white British culture is deeply ingrained with racism and othering - as are many others.

I'm really sorry you're going through this and I hope you can get the support you need.

There's loads of white people who are racist and in relationships with non-white people.

I had a mixed race friend (white mum, dad Black, similar colour to Stormzy) who was white-passing. Her sibling was not white-passing. The Dad left early doors and lived abroad, leaving the mum to bring up the DC in a very white part of the country. The mum HATED Black people, and conditioned her DC to do the same. Particular vitriol was saved for Black women, as apparently the dad had left her for one. This made for two very confused DC growing up, united in disliking Black people, despite one looking so to the outside world.

My friend's experience was far from unique as I come across the result of this kind of upbringing all the time.

An ex’s friend made a racial slur (I had suspected he was racist before) and I said to him you could be talking about my family. I got the usual your famiky are not like that they are different 🙄 heard it so many times it’s tiresome

my boyfriend said nothing that after had a go at me for making a fuss over nothing as no one was hurt

a week of two later I finished it with him for others reasons too but was certainly one of them

of course he understands it’s offensive he just doesn’t care that much that it is

"Sounds like he and your husband think it's akin to saying "you fat cunt" or "you homeless tramp"."

To clarify, I don't mean using racial slurs is an insult like fat or homeless. I mean that if you want to hurt someone overWeight you call them fat and if they look poor/unkempt etc you'd say homeless. I don't get into altercations with strangers and want to hurt them so Im not good at the responses and can't find a good way to explain.

Either way it's wrong and your husband is racist from your updates. I'd say his relative is too.

Sounds like he and your husband think it's akin to saying "you fat cunt" or "you homeless tramp".

But surely those two examples you give are every bit as offensive to some people as what transpired in the OP's initial post.

@ATenShun Well I think that's what her husband's argument is. That it carries the same offence level. To me, commenting on race is a whole new level and much worse. Not to say my example insult isn't incredibly painful. If one is bad, the other is worse.

In addition, he's used a racial slur and not simply a comment on this persons race which may or not be the same race as OP.

I've no authority here so happily told I'm incorrect and learn from it.

That is always my biggest bugbear with anything like this. Who decides what is offensive or not. I'd suggest somebody struggling with body image and overweight, would be every bit as upset about a comment about his/her weight. What makes a comment that offends in that way less offensive than another?

@ATenShun I agree completely and I can't answer it. I'm going off what I feel society has told me. I think it's the element of change. I can change being fat and looking homeless. I cannot change my skin colour.

However, I don't think this discussion affects OPs husband's or husbands relatives intentions. He sounds nasty.

I disagree. Do you think a homeless person is homeless by choice. Did somebody wake up one day and suddenly decide 'you know what, I wanna be fat'. Changing those things are incredibly difficult for a lot of people.

I can't really judge the relatives comments as obviously we don't know what was said or by who. But I do agree with the hubby's comment of dishing out offence and not expecting it back.

In my example the person is unkempt, not actually homeless. They have a choice to be better presented.

I'm not saying they're easily changed. I'm saying they can be.

Has anyone dealt with a similar situation in an interracial relationship? How did you handle it? Any advice on how to approach this with my husband would be appreciated.

I think advice is going to be advice for any toxic relationship- think about the least worst example that you let go and what you would say in that scenario to set a really firm boundary that its not acceptable to you. Then next time it happens set that boundary. And if it's crossed that's it, done.

My husband's family expressed some racist and problematic views. Specifically his parents.

I can't talk about things like this without getting emotional so I basically wrote a long text.

I basically said that ethnic minorities are all connected. Because we all have faced some level of oppression. And that the actions that have caused it may be different. And the place it occured in may be different. But the generational trauma is there for all of us, so we are forever connected. I said they can't pick and choose good and bad minorities because we are connected. And because of that they're not just expressing a view about one person, they are making a statement that anyone not white is less than. They are making a statement to my child that her mother is less than. That SHE is less than.

I then linked them to some resources, suggested they educate themselves and told them that until they reflect and address their thought processes, my daughter and I won't be seeing them, because a racist household isn't a safe environment for a non white child. She doesn't need to be hearing those opinions.

They apologised and they have educated themselves a tiny bit. And they're not racist when we visit. So... Baby steps I guess

There a big big difference between being offensive and being racist.

Yeah... I think you need to end this relationship - he isn't going to change, he doesn't believe there is any need to do so.

Whilst I agree that 'racism' is a VERY broad brush, covering the most heinous, violent and abhorrent actions, thoughts and beliefs, all the way down to the incredibly tiny, obscure references someone may be thoroughly unaware of and this in itself causes issues...

There is zero defence for him standing by whilst people use obviously racist language in front of you.

I think this is far more of an issue than an argument between two people where both are flinging insults designed to hurt - I think we've all said some horrible things we do not actually think, in the heat of the moment. That doesn't make it right... but it isn't a wildly unusual behaviour.

That’s so well put.

But using race suggests you think there is something inherently lesser about another race.

You wouldn't slur someone for being a brunette or having green eyes.

The only reason you would use a racial slur is because somewhere in you there is a genuine belief that the other person's race is a negative
In other words. You're a racist if you use a racist slur

@ATenShun the difference between calling someone a 'fat c**t' and a racial slur is that fat people have not been systematically raped, tortured and enslaved in the same way people of colour have. There is absolutely descrimination and prejudice towards fat people, and poor people yes. The closest comparable example I can think of, is a male partner using sexist derogatory language in front of or towards his female partner. It gives a good indication of that man's beliefs about women regardless of what he might think or say.

@HucklefinBerry hit the nail on the head…

But using race suggests you think there is something inherently lesser about another race.

It’s not just a random insult, it exposes something about your core belief system. It may even be an unconscious bias but it’s there and needs to be worked on.

This point about arguing and being deliberately hurtful as possible is interesting.

That isn’t how I argue. I don’t want to hurt the other person - we’re disagreeing and I want to deal with the issue. I want there to be a relationship to nurture at the other side of the fallout.

I don’t and wouldn’t use personal insults during an argument and anyone who does is a person I’m not interested in being with.

In 19 years DH and I have never insulted each other. I am able to disagree and convey my point without resorting to personal insults as is he.

That's why people like this use it, it's not a random insult. They know it's going to hurt the recipient a lot. It says nothing of their belief system other than they know it's going to have a significant impact on. However, as above, I don't think a person of any intellect or understanding would use this insult.