Parents not wanting to parent/tell their child no

[HappyWorkingMummy]

I truly want to know if I am being unreasonable here.

I have loads of experiences with my primary age children's friends and their parents where their parents don't say no to their children and I then do so.

Examples:

Their primary aged child is breaking my children's toys with intention on a play date, parent says nothing and I have to interject.

Their primary aged child is going through my handbag and my personal belongings (keys, card etc) and their parent just sits there and says nothing so I have to interject and say no and tell the child why.

We are out at a restaurant and their primary aged kid runs about all over causing other customers to look frustrated and also walks round the table we are at and starts eating my dinner from my plate with their hands and parent says nothing. I have to find a way to interject.

In shops/gift shops one primary ages child screams if he can't get what he wants and the parent just buys it for him to stop the screaming. The child now knows that screaming and refusing to leave and throwing things off shelves in shops until he gets what he wants works. When the parents are there too my partner and I just walk away with our children and wait outside after we have for what we want (if we buy anything). If it's just me/my partner without the parents there then I/we tell the child we are looking after (not our own but on a play date) to pick the items up they have thrown on the floor and make clear the child will not be getting any treats if the behaviour continues. It works and the child behaves (for a while at least) but the child's own parents never do this.

At a story time event and children are asked to sit on the rug and listen but primary aged child runs and shouts all round the room spoiling things for the other children and parents say nothing... the person running story time tells them to behave each week and looks frustrated.

I also notice that if I ask a child not to do something and they then ask their parents if they can do it, their parent will say ask X (me!). Well, I've already told them no and the parent heard that but is refusing to reinforce it and simply doesn't want to parent.

I don't want to keep having to say no to their child! I've already said no.

These are just a few small examples but I'm noticing so often. I also notice it falls into two camps in our friendship group. The first are the parents who just want an easy life and don't especially want the 'inconvenience' of their child or dealing with their child's moods and negative feelings etc and the second are the parents who think their children can do no wrong and never say no to them.

Are my partner and I horrid parents for raising our children with boundaries (their own while also respecting other peoples)?

We are surrounded by so many parents who don't say no and their child/rens' behaviour impacts negatively on our kids and us too on days out etc,

These kids are neurotypical and, anyway, it's not about the kids' behaviour here (they are kids!) but rather about the fact we have so many friends who never tell their kids no or stop and so we have to sometimes when impacting on us.

How do you deal with this situation where friends' primary aged kids are misbehaving and it's impacting you directly but their parents don't say a peep?

Also, are we too harsh with our own kids?

Should we let our children run wherever they want, let them go through friends' personal possessions, break friends' toys with intention, leave their own dinner and eat someone else's dinner in a restaurant uninvited because they decided when it arrived they wanted that more?

These are just a few examples.

It's frustrating having to repeatedly put boundaries in place with other people's children while parenting your own simply because their kids have no/few boundaries but, even more so, my partner and I are wondering if we are too strict with our children because we DO have these boundaries in place (we know it's a way not only to respect other people but for our kids to respect themselves and feel healthy and secure. No can be good sometimes!).

Would love to hear thoughts.

Yes OP, good idea. Do that.

@Commonsense22 no this is the default setting for the various friends in question.

We all have moments of missing something or not being as present as we could. I'm certainly not always doing the right thing as a parent!

But the parents I am thinking of have these as default settings. As mentioned in the OP, some because they seem to have totally zoned out of all parenting, good and bad (we have let friendships with one parent fizzle out because of this) and some because their children can do no wrong in their eyes. With the latter it's active parenting and active choices to not say no and always be good cop/s.

I couldn’t be around those people, it would irritate the hell out of me. There’s no way I could sit there with those ineffectual parents with their kids running riot and enjoy myself and even respect those parents as friends. I’d either have to say something or I’d get annoyed or both and probably fall out with them. Not sat there time and time again whilst their kids run riot and behave like spoilt brats (because that’s what they are) and say nothing. I wouldn’t want my kids seeing that behaviour and thinking that’s ok either.

Thanks and here's hoping.

Our kids know that behaviour isn't ok and they sometimes laugh at it in a gobsmacked kind of way when we get home. Can you believe so and so did such and such type of Situation rather than any mean gossiping or what have you.

I like these people (the ones we are still friends with). I just don't always like that the way they parent affects me and my family negatively at times.

That's a tough gig. Five kids.

I think I'd cut a bit of slack if my friend had five kids but it's not hard to tell them to get off their scooters before going on a cafe! Wild.

Wondering if there's also an urban rural divide.

We are urban, living in a large English city.

I'd have thought there would be more rules here.

If one of your children took her child's bike I bet they would not think they were only playing.

Sounds to me like you're doing a good job of raising your own kids OP, but have you thought of actually questioning your so called friends, as to why they never say no to their children? If they're good friends, couldn't you say something like 'You know Sue, I've noticed every time we go out with the kids, that it's always me that stops the kids doing things that are naughty, silly, or dangerous, which leaves me always looking like the bad guy, do you think you could sort them out occasionally? Then look them in the eye, and wait for the excuses. You never know, it just might make them think about the little horrors they're creating, although I doubt it!

The trouble is though, that so many parents these days are lazy when it comes to disciplining their kids, and would sooner let them do what they want, than deal with the tantrums that arise when you stop them. Personally, I believe that it is our job as parents to teach them how to behave, and if you don't want to make the effort to do that, then don't have them, but all too often, it all proves to be too much trouble, and that's why there are so many feral kids around these days.

I think any conversation has to happen as something is happening so that they cannot make excuses and pretend that it didn't

So, while this kind of conversation would ideally take place in a calm thought out way not with the kids around and not while something with the kids is going on, I would have to do it while an act was taking place to avoid any denials and that wasn't my child etc.

I'm getting lots of tips from this though so keep them coming!

This is an interesting observation but they are a mixture of SAHMs, part- and full-time working parents.

I find this thread interesting because I parent in a very similar way to you, OP, but find myself reading your posts and getting irritated, and I'm really interested in why I am! Have just spent a bit of time thinking about it, so here are my reflections, if helpful. I don't think you're being unreasonable (at all) in not liking the behaviour you describe, or being frustrated at other people's parenting styles. It feels a little like you have nowhere to go between "please stop that" and wanting the other parent to stop it, and your frustration that the other parent isn't doing it is turning into "god I'm good why can't everyone be as good as me?" It sounds like you really resent other parents for putting you in a position where you have to set a clear and firm boundary for their children. You describe it as being the bad guy, but in my view, it's not that, it's just stating your need in the moment, which is fine.

I wonder if you're seeing your need for other people to parent differently (or wish they would take your needs into account). That's the bit that's unreasonable I think, you might prefer people to do things differently, but they do what works for them, or what they think works for other people (which doesn't mean it's good, we all have our blind spots and failures) and you can't change that no matter how inferior you think it makes them. And I wonder if you're so frustrated by it that you've got a bit of confirmation bias (eg the example you gave of someone saying "OP asked you not to do that" could have been a way of telling the child that other people have different rules. I don't know, I wasn't there, but a friend of mine quite often says things like "I'm sure Incy doesn't want that kind of behaviour in her house", which i quite like as a way of reminding a child that they need to remember other people's rules and needs)

If you're looking for ideas, I think in the situation with the food and the handbag, I'd tell the child no as you did, and then when the parent directed them back to me, I'd pleasantly (personally I wouldn't mind being sharp about it, but sounds like you don't want to do that) ask them "could you tell x not do that please". It engages them in the problem. If they say "oh she's fine" (or whatever), it's reasonable to say "but it's not fine for me, could you ask her to stop please". And if you really want to avoid conflict, saying everything in a very jokey tone helps. Eg today a friend's child got very rough with mine so I stepped between them and said something like "woah (name), this is like a boxing match! Time to do something new, I'm taking (my child) over here!", but in the same tone that I'd say "ok kids time for ice cream!" to make it less conflictual. Fine not to want to grab a kid's wrist (I wouldn't either unless we were close), but also fine to put a physical barrier - standing up and holding the plate up would be a good one (and if you don't want the conflict, do it with a smile and a jokey comment about it being yours. Putting in place the physical barrier isn't the conflict, the tone is). But giving your food to the child and ordering a new one for the parent to pay for (no guarantee they will), or soaking food in salt and pepper, or loudly praising your children for their behaviour, is passive, and you are clearly comfortable being kindly assertive with your children, so I wonder if that is harder for some reason with adults? Can you find a middle ground that isn't sharply telling off a child/showing your anger or annoyance, but does directly state what you need? (Again personally I think it's ok to tell someone off/show annoyance, but aware you've said a few times you don't want to)

I agree with you on the social trend for permissive parenting, and it being damaging to children. I don't think actually people parented better in the past, but you saw it less because children did fewer things with adults (neither my mum nor dad went to a restaurant till they were adults themselves, and they played out unsupervised rather than had playdates; our expectations of what we do with children have changed). You can't tackle that without risking conflict unless you're genuinely interested in why other parents make different choices to you, which I think is very difficult to do when you're in the state of frustration that you seem to be. And it's fine to say there's no good reason to make those parenting choices, but that's a position from which you can only reach a better solution by addressing it directly rather than expecting the other parent to either be "better", or showing your annoyance in different ways that they might (but might not) pick up on.

I think this thread might so far just be reinforcing your frustration, so wanted to throw a different perspective in. Genuinely hope it's helpful, but if not, no problem.

I really like this response and perspective and it's very useful so thank you.

I have used and do use a similar approach elsewhere (no thank you ... because I don't like that) and it works great. I suppose I feel like kids maybe deserve more of an explanation with some things (unless hurting or whatever) and also there are some parents who are so touchy about ever telling their kids no that it becomes hard.

I'm going to implement this in future. The parent/can then explain why or why not or whatever but I don't care what the parents tell their own kids or how they tell them I just care that the child stops intruding on my boundaries and making me feel frustrated or uncomfortable in that moment.

There is one part I don't agree with and its about my feelings when I tell a child no repeatedly their parent hears and they still encourage their child to do that thing to me. It's normal to feel uncomfortable there and kind of trapped. Not after your response. Thanks for this.

There was one incident where a mother and her kids came round for a play date and she was very very lazy. I cooked (quick pizza, salad) and made drinks and snacks but every time I went into the kitchen she allowed her kids to follow me without saying anything to them. She didn't parent them once (never does, whether fun stuff like day trips or telling them no) and so I kept ushering them back to the living room to play.

The son was shouting the whole time, banging everything he could, breaking toys and items.

I had told him no repeatedly as the mother sat on her ass and said and did nothing. Was running round having to take toys off him as he tried to break etc. Her kids are neurotypical.

I did eventually turn to her and say please can you tell him, this situation is very uncomfortable for me.

She still said nothing.

Our kids also hated the play date and don't want them back in our home.

They messaged afterwards to say what a great time they had and were very keen to do it again soon. I thought I bet you did, meals made, babysitting done. We haven't spent time with them again (interestingly, she never ever invited us to theirs. Because that would mean her having to do something).

It was the same with trips and days out. My partner or I would make all of the plans, come up with ideas, check times, buy tickets (she would refund) and she would just turn up and passively walk with us. No making things fun for the kids or adding any enthusiasm or pointing things out or the type of things people do on days out with kids. My partner and I would be entertaining her kids and ours.

Everything was a one way street. We felt like the unpaid hired helps!

Just so people who have commented don't think I'm a total wet wipe standing up for myself/putting boundaries in place with adults.

My DC are young adults now but there were always drips like this whose kids were a nightmare. They are the dumb cud-chewing freesian cows of parenting. They just gormlessly stare and do nothing when their child wreaks havoc and haven’t got a thought in their head about consideration for others or that their kid needs reigning in. Totally selfish.

You have to save your own sanity so I learned to just avoid those people all together, and their kids were never invited on play dates. Sorry but if you can’t socialise your child beyond feral then they are not coming to my house. With the case of my nephew, we reduced visits so we only saw them twice a year - and even that was a chore.

It's such a shame when parents get on with the exception to how they let their children behave.

I appreciate this thread and contributors for keeping me sane while I am in my sick bed (Covid).

We just wish their parents could be arsed/dared to say no!

It's so sad because if they can't say no to their small children, they're not going to have a hope in hell of parenting teenagers.

YANBU and I would definitely say something if they were in my house or doing something that affected me or my children (not that my children are actually children any more.)

Today I saw two examples of parents telling their children not to do something (both things that were in fact dangerous), not checking understanding (the children didn't respond in any way and carried on doing the dangerous things as if they hadn't even heard), and not even setting a consequence let alone following through with it. I felt really uncomfortable, but these weren't friends or children whose actions directly affected me, they were complete strangers and I don't think it would have been appropriate to intervene, although I probably would have done if an accident had been literally just about to happen. One child, aged about 3, was running around unrestrained near traffic, and the other, maybe about 6, was standing up on the top deck of a bus (and incidentally making a lot of very irritating noises). It wasn't just the fact that the parents weren't doing anything to make sure their important safety instructions were being followed, it was also the thought that if they couldn't even be arsed to enforce those instructions, then would they ever bother to enforce just not being a pain in the arse?

I can BS! I honestly think this is a fake post!

I can BS! I honestly think this is a fake post!

I see these people out and about, but have no close contact with them.

I have no respect for useless parents, so couldn't be friends with them.

I have fallen out with 2 of my closest cousins over their lack of parenting.

I was the main host for all family events and I found the lack of respect and boundaries when they bought their children round unbelievably stressful. So I started to make events ‘adults only’ by only hosting in the evenings instead of the day.

Unfortunately, after too many glasses of wine, they questioned why I didn’t like their children and I explained it wasn’t the children that I disliked, but the behaviour. Naturally, they felt attacked/ judged, it’s obviously an insecurity of theirs, and sadly the relationships haven’t recovered.

I am gutted because I would have classed them as my best friends, however I am also very grateful not to be around their children anymore. The flip side is that I am now much closer to 2 of my other cousins who parent the same way as me.

I am a secondary school teacher. Stick to your guns with your children. It will make the teenage years much easier if they know what the boundaries are already.

I don’t think you like these people or their children. Sometimes people will not say no when you would and vice versa. I have had a child take good off my plate and say to the parent “ oh heck! Jemima is eating my dinner and I just sprinkled laxative on it, there could be an explosion later” and laughed. Same with my bag “ oops Frederick is in my handbag, I think he has got my lipstick vibrator” and laughed. Usually that kind of joke works.
I would be careful of being too critical now. Tables turn, their children might be wonderful carefree teenagers and yours might be disruptive.
If you like them then live with their ways. If not find some friends like you….but beware they might not be all you expect

It’s maddening, and increasingly common.
What drove me mad even years ago was a friend who’d say no to something her dd wanted to have or do (because she’d been misbehaving) - the dd would then scream and roar for 20 minutes - after which her mother would weakly say, ‘Oh, go on then…’
Cue a triumphant beam from the child - ‘I’ve won again!’

So frustrating to witness. Again and again.