Parents not wanting to parent/tell their child no

[HappyWorkingMummy]

I truly want to know if I am being unreasonable here.

I have loads of experiences with my primary age children's friends and their parents where their parents don't say no to their children and I then do so.

Examples:

Their primary aged child is breaking my children's toys with intention on a play date, parent says nothing and I have to interject.

Their primary aged child is going through my handbag and my personal belongings (keys, card etc) and their parent just sits there and says nothing so I have to interject and say no and tell the child why.

We are out at a restaurant and their primary aged kid runs about all over causing other customers to look frustrated and also walks round the table we are at and starts eating my dinner from my plate with their hands and parent says nothing. I have to find a way to interject.

In shops/gift shops one primary ages child screams if he can't get what he wants and the parent just buys it for him to stop the screaming. The child now knows that screaming and refusing to leave and throwing things off shelves in shops until he gets what he wants works. When the parents are there too my partner and I just walk away with our children and wait outside after we have for what we want (if we buy anything). If it's just me/my partner without the parents there then I/we tell the child we are looking after (not our own but on a play date) to pick the items up they have thrown on the floor and make clear the child will not be getting any treats if the behaviour continues. It works and the child behaves (for a while at least) but the child's own parents never do this.

At a story time event and children are asked to sit on the rug and listen but primary aged child runs and shouts all round the room spoiling things for the other children and parents say nothing... the person running story time tells them to behave each week and looks frustrated.

I also notice that if I ask a child not to do something and they then ask their parents if they can do it, their parent will say ask X (me!). Well, I've already told them no and the parent heard that but is refusing to reinforce it and simply doesn't want to parent.

I don't want to keep having to say no to their child! I've already said no.

These are just a few small examples but I'm noticing so often. I also notice it falls into two camps in our friendship group. The first are the parents who just want an easy life and don't especially want the 'inconvenience' of their child or dealing with their child's moods and negative feelings etc and the second are the parents who think their children can do no wrong and never say no to them.

Are my partner and I horrid parents for raising our children with boundaries (their own while also respecting other peoples)?

We are surrounded by so many parents who don't say no and their child/rens' behaviour impacts negatively on our kids and us too on days out etc,

These kids are neurotypical and, anyway, it's not about the kids' behaviour here (they are kids!) but rather about the fact we have so many friends who never tell their kids no or stop and so we have to sometimes when impacting on us.

How do you deal with this situation where friends' primary aged kids are misbehaving and it's impacting you directly but their parents don't say a peep?

Also, are we too harsh with our own kids?

Should we let our children run wherever they want, let them go through friends' personal possessions, break friends' toys with intention, leave their own dinner and eat someone else's dinner in a restaurant uninvited because they decided when it arrived they wanted that more?

These are just a few examples.

It's frustrating having to repeatedly put boundaries in place with other people's children while parenting your own simply because their kids have no/few boundaries but, even more so, my partner and I are wondering if we are too strict with our children because we DO have these boundaries in place (we know it's a way not only to respect other people but for our kids to respect themselves and feel healthy and secure. No can be good sometimes!).

Would love to hear thoughts.

See i completely disagree with telling other peoples kids off! I will preface this by saying i would never allow my dc to behave in such a way as op describes and mine most definitely did have rules and boundaries! All of them are doing very well in their adult lives. However if i am present i absolutely will not tolerate another adult reprimanding my dc. I am there if i had a problem with their behaviour then i would tell them off, if i am not doing so then i don't feel like they are doing anything that warrants a telling off!

It's a mixture.

A couple of examples.

With the lboy who was breaking toys and with the mother who relies on the boy's elder sister to do the parenting (and is when we had play dates) she said nothing and seemed to enjoy abdicating all parental responsibility to others, both the fun stuff and the boundaries so she could either zone out or get on with what she wanted to do.

With an only child we know, the mother sees no wrong in anything her child does and when we say no and the child gets upset or whinges to her mother I said no, the mother either encourages her to do it again/try again or tells her to ask me. But I already said no and don't want to be asked again. She just doesn't see anything wrong in what her child does and speaks negatively about situations with other parents where they haven't allowed her child to do whatever she wants. On the are occasion she tells her child no, the no turns into a yes.

I'm seeking a way to be firm with my no so that the parents pick up on it and I don't have to keep being the bad guy saying no repeatedly about the things I've already said no to! But maybe the reality is there is no way to reinforce this and I simply have to accept that in some situations with some parents I will have to keep saying no because the parent won't (either that or end friendships, which I don't want to do in most cases).

Everyone parents differently, the other kids sound annoying but it sounds like you think you are superior in your approach

@lovelysunshine22 in my case it's never a telling off, it's a no and sometimes an explanation of why it's a no.

I've never shouted at or told another persons kid off. I have told them no. And repeatedly.

Funnily enough, one parent who never says no to her kid does shout at other peoples kids!

She tried that with mine once and we left so she got the picture and she hadn't done it again. But I know it's still an issue elsewhere.

So far on this thread we've had

Working parent bashing
Private school parent bashing
One child parent bashing
Middle class parent bashing

Can't wait to see what's next.

Most parents I know are terrified of being judged in public by other parents. Justified fear looking at this thread.

With my former friend (she lost a lot of friends as well as me due to her lack of parenting) I had to speak to her like a child.
For example one day she came over and we were having lunch and the children were going to play and watch tv after. All the children had sandwiches, fruit etc but her son would only eat the cake I bought for everyone for after lunch, he was kicking off and shouting. She took the cake and let him eat it and spread it everywhere. No one else had the chance to eat any.
The other parents told their children no cake until after lunch and they listened, we all told her son no and she ignored us and so did he.
I had to explain to her what the rules/etiquette are like she was 5 years old too. She seemed annoyed with us.
This was one of many incidents.

I feel your pain OP!

Close relative is exactly the same, she is trying to be friends with her kids rather than parent them.

Make it really hard when we are all out together as DD thinks it's ok to behave that way too.

There is no soft parenting on my watch!

You're perfectly within your rights to tell a child not to mess with your things or disrespect your house. You're also entitled to tell a child not to take handfuls of your food. You're within your rights not to be around feral children and to meet parents separately.

This seems to be about your own boundaries - you seem incapable of speaking out or putting your foot down.

Kids have a weird energy (as my childless friend absolutely nailed), they just aren’t particularly enjoyable company for most adults. Setting boundaries constantly and saying ‘no’, ‘don’t do that it’s dangerous’, ‘don’t do that you are hurting X’, ‘pick up that wrapper or X from floor’, ‘do you need a poo/wee?’, ‘why did you do that, I asked you not to’ is just so fucking boring. That’s your answer right there. Children do lots of things that adults find unacceptable, that doesn’t mean they will do them as adults, likewise immaculately behaved children do not necessarily morph into elegantly behaved teenagers and adults. I think you need to dial down the judgments and take a ‘you do you Boo’ approach, it isn’t your job or role to parent other children - however permissively they are being raised, it’s not really your business.

@cupcaske123 I think you're somewhat right but rather in that it's about boundaries of mine I never thought I'd have to vocally enforce with other peoples kids and that's where I struggle.

But I would say I'm good with boundaries for myself and my kids and there aren't issues here aside from with friends' kids and their lack of boundaries for their kids!

My concern is more about how to tell another child to stop/no/I've told you no a hundred times now stop while their parent sits there saying nothing!

I have think parents who are confident in themselves and had resilience modelled for them by their parents are well able to deal with the concept of other people intervening with their children’s behaviour.
The parents who react badly take it as a personal insult, they feel attacked themselves, and I can see how they would revert to lashing out rather than self regulating.
This then perpetuates the cycle of behaviour as their kids see the response modelled.
My friend is a high school teacher who is regularly threatened with violence by the parents of children because he has to tell them they are out of line.
It’s very common.

But it IS our business when the kids are going through our hand bags and grabbing our food and breaking things in our home and the parent says nothing.

That's the point! It's TOO in our business!

So you don't enforce boundaries because you find it 'boring'?!

I think we may be friends!! 😆 But not for much longer!

Sometimes you have to open your mouth and upset the child and the parent.
I asked the mother of the little girl who always made excuses(she’s only 3,6,10,12 and so on) if she was going to pay for replacement window if I had to break into my house after I told her little darling „could you please get out of my bag”. Mother could see nothing wrong with her DD rummaging in my bag. She wasn’t happy but I don’t care.

DS bike getting damaged- brakes dismantled and needing replacement. „Get off the bike please” then removed it. Again, upset mother and child because I was mean. I didn’t care.

„Could you please stop going through the cupboard/fridge”. Parent saying that they are allowed at home. Well,this is not YOUR home so you don’t get to do it here. I always offer food but eating is allowed only in the dining room at the table- another draconian rule according to some parents.

”Could you please do not open that cupboard”(boiler). Parent „they only want to have a look”. I don’t care. Boilers are not toys to be fiddled with (boiler cupboard had a bolt at the top to prevent our kids accessing it). Little Johnny took a stool from the kitchen to stand on it while I went to the toilet.

Hosted several playdates- if the child was feral and parent permissive they never got invited again. Managed to build a few friendships with parents with common sense and fulfilling their parenting duties.

Several other examples. Luckily mine outgrown the playdates. Strangely enough there are 2 groups of kids around- one with sensible parents to start with and these who wised up and eventually put boundaries in place, 2nd group with antisocial brats with many behavioural issues whose parents are still in the „kids will be kids” brigade. Go figure.

That's interesting that they maybe see it as a personal attack.

I guess it indirectly is?

Because their kids are acting so poorly and repeatedly that someone else needs to tell the children that while the parent fails to.

Sadly I have seen plenty of situations like this as well. It’s parents who want to be their child’s best friend, not their parent. I have friends who now refuse to fly via a specific airport because a security person gave out to their child for playing in the screening area. They were so outraged that someone would shout at a child that they now use different London airports. Not a shred of realisation that an airport, especially the security screening area, is not a playground.
Same child also went through my bag and the parent thought it perfectly acceptable. It’s incredible really

What happens when these kids grow up ? They don't last long in the workplace or they soon learn that they have to toe the line if they want to keep a job . As they get older other kids won't tolerate them so reject them.Some of these kids end up doing time for fraud / theft because they think they are entitled to everything.

If these are family members there's not much you can do about it

Of course there is, family don't get a free ride for being poor parents. The words 'stop it', 'NO' 'naughty' are useful, probably words they've never heard before.

There is plenty you can do but it won't make you popular

Once hosted a play date for old neighbours, her child went in to my bedroom and sprayed my perfume, threw a box of tissues across the room and almost damaged a snooker table with a cue . They were never invited again and I cut off contact .

In a restaurant where the brats are running wild you tell your children that the other children are being very badly behaved because no-one tells them No and 'you are better than that'.

Parents need to reintroduce the words 'because I say so!'.

Yes I notice it! And what I find as infuriating is the 'flexible no'. Child asks to do something and is told no so begs, gets angry and parent lets them do it. How do children learn what no means?!

I know parents know their own child and I try really hard not to judge because I don't know their situation but in a cafe last week and a toddler (2 maybe 3) came over to our table. We say 'oh hello' and carried on our conversation as the child started removing the cutlery from our table! The parent sat and half watched/half played on their phone!

I have no issue telling anoyher child no. We do this with friends/fily and expect them to tell our kids too. It takes a village.

Personally I'd call the parents out too. They need to parent.

So when telling the child name the parent too so they are brought into the conversation. If they value your friendship they'll pick up the reins.

So what? If their parents are neglecting them it doesn't mean that everyone else needs to follow and accept it. I don't think I would want to be 'popular' with such drips, family or not.

IMO they see the child as a reflection/extension of themselves. That’s why saying no kneejerks an excuse out of them.

Whereas other parents might keep quiet and allow the boundary setting, or reiterate “kind hands” or take it further with an explanation “People have different rules in their houses, and it’s polite to listen to them”.

In a way, you’re watching the children train the parents, it’s a reversal of the norm. Will these children develop the resilience for life? Will they fledge and drive themselves forward into success and contentment?

Completely agree.
I was sharing my experience.
Luckily I didn't give a toss about being popular either