Parents not wanting to parent/tell their child no

[HappyWorkingMummy]

I truly want to know if I am being unreasonable here.

I have loads of experiences with my primary age children's friends and their parents where their parents don't say no to their children and I then do so.

Examples:

Their primary aged child is breaking my children's toys with intention on a play date, parent says nothing and I have to interject.

Their primary aged child is going through my handbag and my personal belongings (keys, card etc) and their parent just sits there and says nothing so I have to interject and say no and tell the child why.

We are out at a restaurant and their primary aged kid runs about all over causing other customers to look frustrated and also walks round the table we are at and starts eating my dinner from my plate with their hands and parent says nothing. I have to find a way to interject.

In shops/gift shops one primary ages child screams if he can't get what he wants and the parent just buys it for him to stop the screaming. The child now knows that screaming and refusing to leave and throwing things off shelves in shops until he gets what he wants works. When the parents are there too my partner and I just walk away with our children and wait outside after we have for what we want (if we buy anything). If it's just me/my partner without the parents there then I/we tell the child we are looking after (not our own but on a play date) to pick the items up they have thrown on the floor and make clear the child will not be getting any treats if the behaviour continues. It works and the child behaves (for a while at least) but the child's own parents never do this.

At a story time event and children are asked to sit on the rug and listen but primary aged child runs and shouts all round the room spoiling things for the other children and parents say nothing... the person running story time tells them to behave each week and looks frustrated.

I also notice that if I ask a child not to do something and they then ask their parents if they can do it, their parent will say ask X (me!). Well, I've already told them no and the parent heard that but is refusing to reinforce it and simply doesn't want to parent.

I don't want to keep having to say no to their child! I've already said no.

These are just a few small examples but I'm noticing so often. I also notice it falls into two camps in our friendship group. The first are the parents who just want an easy life and don't especially want the 'inconvenience' of their child or dealing with their child's moods and negative feelings etc and the second are the parents who think their children can do no wrong and never say no to them.

Are my partner and I horrid parents for raising our children with boundaries (their own while also respecting other peoples)?

We are surrounded by so many parents who don't say no and their child/rens' behaviour impacts negatively on our kids and us too on days out etc,

These kids are neurotypical and, anyway, it's not about the kids' behaviour here (they are kids!) but rather about the fact we have so many friends who never tell their kids no or stop and so we have to sometimes when impacting on us.

How do you deal with this situation where friends' primary aged kids are misbehaving and it's impacting you directly but their parents don't say a peep?

Also, are we too harsh with our own kids?

Should we let our children run wherever they want, let them go through friends' personal possessions, break friends' toys with intention, leave their own dinner and eat someone else's dinner in a restaurant uninvited because they decided when it arrived they wanted that more?

These are just a few examples.

It's frustrating having to repeatedly put boundaries in place with other people's children while parenting your own simply because their kids have no/few boundaries but, even more so, my partner and I are wondering if we are too strict with our children because we DO have these boundaries in place (we know it's a way not only to respect other people but for our kids to respect themselves and feel healthy and secure. No can be good sometimes!).

Would love to hear thoughts.

Everyone thinks their own children are perfect OP 🤣

I repeatedly said no. It made no difference to the child and the parent encouraged the child to come back and get more.

What would you have done to prevent this when no after no wasn't working?

I even added extra salt and pepper to my food when the child started as I know the parent wouldn't like the child having extra salt and said it's got lots of salt on but the parent interjected to het some of my food which had less salt and pepper on!

Nothing was getting through to the parent.

And you don't sound like a dick coming on jere to insult but not to add anything productive? Ok then...

I don't, my partner doesn't, the people with healthy relationships with their kids don't.

Amazing? Wonderful? The most loved? Of course.

But perfect? That's just setting them up for failure.

@PippyLongTits the mother suggested the restaurant and we usually give it a few months between any such outing, thinking maybe she's suggesting it because her child can settle a little better in them.

I don't want to avoid situations or people I want suggestions of what others have said when parents are being really rude and letting their kids do whatever.

I have name changed for this as it could be outing.

I experience this exact type of parenting with my two sister in laws. Their children come to my house, break toys, throw food, do whatever they want and act wild and their parents don't tell them off. I have had crisps thrown all over my carpet and stamped in, toys deliberately broken, my children hit/kicked etc. I no longer host as I honestly cannot cope with the stress anymore.

We now go out to places to eat/with the kids and it is no better. The last time, people actually moved away from our table due to their children's behaviour. They both think I am strict as my children will sit with colouring, wait for everyone's food before eating and not run around amok.

As the children have got older, my sister in laws have no control over their children. They do want they want, when they want. The children generally no longer attend family events as they would rather stay at home and can't be told they are going to do something with no consideration at all as to how it impacts others.

@userloadsofnumbers my experience has been different - my friend with 5 kids just lets her kids scoot into coffee shops on scooters because it’s too much hassle to parent them to get them to stop this, as she’s her hands full. I think this is completely selfish and inconsiderate and would never, ever, allow my only to display such entitled behaviour.

Incidentally, we also have a very high proportion of only children in his year - don't mean to be controversial and I know not all 'onlys' are treated like this but at this school they are definitely indulged and never told no!

What a surprise - the only group it seems acceptable to stereotype getting a bashing again.

I'm sure you know the answer. Presumably you did something along the lines of grabbing the wrist as it came towards your plate and saying "no thank you, I don't want dirty hands in my food". If they did it again, you presumably then said to your friend "can you please stop your child, I don't want dirty hands in my food".

If you didn't do the above. What did you do in this situation?

I can totally believe this. I'm sure those parents exist too - and being on number 4 myself I know how you can definitely be over it by this stage. However, I would never let my children behave like that - my fourth is actually very challenging to parent - very stubborn and difficult and made worse by being surrounded by spoilt children who are allowed to run amok so it 'isn't fair' when he isn't. The only solution is to distance yourself where you can - we do still socialise with these families but much less than we would. And try to spend more time with families whose parenting style is more similar and play dates are much more enjoyable.

@PippyLongTits I did not and would never grab their wrist. Not my child. And the mother would go ballistic.

I also wasn't rude in what I said.

I said no and that it's my dinner and they have their own dinner.

Worst grabbing and that form of comment would cause conflict while I'm seeking to reinforce boundaries (mine!) without it escalating.

I don't schedule constant playdates, I find that helps, when I do I select locations like museums, galleries, swimming pools, soft plays and other public spaces. I have no problem setting boundaries for my kid, but I draw the line at parenting others children, setting boundaries for the world's children is not my responsibility - however dire the quality of parenting. Equally, I would not expect a friend to to parent my DD, that is a parents job. Without you knowing what is and isn't permitted in each child's home, there is an awful lot of assumption on your part. Obviously if YOU schedule a playdate at your home, its your rules, end of story. In my experience the most permissive parents are those who are overrun, and have found the leap from 1 child to 2 or more difficult to manage.

Saying 'no' and setting boundaries is exactly how you raise a child into a well-adjusted adult. The parenting you describe is common and sadly normal. It explains why there are a lot of messed up, selfish and flatout arseholes for adults today.

Surely with the taking food thing is that the child is ordered things that she would like to eat . If that happened to me I would be firmly saying to the parent to order the same for her child and not allow her to take yours . If she didn’t I would order it myself but tell her she was paying for it . I suspect that your children are behaved well because you know them well enough to choose things they will happily eat or choose themselves whereS the mother has zoned out so much they have no idea what child would eat and just ordered what they usually order.

That is awful if the parent was joining in! In this situation I think you have to be quite confrontational. "What are you doing? I've said no. I'm not joking. I don't find it funny. I've been very clear that I don't like it and I've explained why not. Your child has been scrabbling around on the dirty floor and I don't want her filthy fingers, or yours, in my food. If there is anything left over when I've finished, I will offer it to my own children first and if they don't want it, then she may have it, but I'm not finished, I'm still eating, and you are both being very rude considering I've said repeatedly that I'm not happy with her taking food from my plate. If she is hungry you need to get her an extra bowl of chips or some bread and butter or something. Here is the menu."

She orders what the child asks for but when other peoples food and drinks arrive she consumes them if she likes the look of them better.

Yes I was thinkiing it's a good idea to say she can have mine if she prefers it but if I will order myself another now as I don't want to share my dinner. That will stop it happening as the mother won't want to pay for it. I reckon when the bill arrives and she has to pay for a second dinner for her child she will change her tune (the mother is also a food stealer although not quite as bad so this could be a solid approach to getting them to stop without having to say no again and again)

@HappyWorkingMummy

I would have been more assertive. Or complained to the manager.
There is no way you couldn’t actually stop a small child from eating your food. That’s ridiculous. It’s not a vicious dog.

Well there are ways, but when taken off guard in the money I want to ensure that those ways allow our families to maintain friendships.

You do, however, have me laughing quite loudly with your suggestion to get the restaurant manager involved. Thanks for that I really needed the laugh today. Brilliant!

I agree with that 100%. It is the parents' fault that their children are so badly behaved. Of course, children need to be taught boundaries, how to be considerate to others, it is not harsh to do that. Most parents manage to do that quite gently.

Give these people a miss from now on, there are plenty of others who think as you do.

I've seen this happen twice at two weddings.

On both occasions, after useless flapping from the parents ("stop that Thomas... that's not yours....", the person whose food was getting eaten raised the plate over their head and used a firm voice to tell them to stop, that it was rude to eat other people's food, and to go and sit down, now.

The effect was instantaneous - the kids' eyes widened at the sheer novelty of being spoken to in a firm voice, and they went and sat down. Parents in both situations absolutely hated it, of course, because the children were "upset" and "isolated" - but it worked.

In your position I'd just stop seeing these friends if their kids are present. It sounds tedious and utterly un-enjoyable.

Children (my own and other people's) find me terrifying so tend to behave well around me. So much so that some of my friends regularly threaten their kids that they'll tell PuppiesProzacProsecco if they don't behave. So maybe become more terrifying OP? An extreme resting bitch face is an excellent starting point.

When DD was little we saw this a lot too and found lax parenting super frustrating but here we all are years later with teenagers. DD16 is polite, delightful, converses with adults confidently and is a pleasure to be around. She still hangs out with us, watches movies with us, tells us about her friends and her life and what's happening. Those other kids are always angry, grumpy and mean to their parents and can't seem to hold a conversation with other adults or even sit around the table for supper if they come here - they sulk and want to be on their phones or gaming. They're rude to their parents publicly and at home.
And the parents are so shocked DD isn't like their kids but it's not rocket science. Give a child boundaries and teach them to respect others and behave well and they will take those lessons into teenage hood and adulthood.

I thought about just this yesterday reading a string of posts on here from mums struggling with their teenagers being vile to them. You lay the groundwork with young children and reap the rewards later. Keep doing what you're doing and hopefully you'll have peaceful teen years!

Are the people like that all the time or just occasionally? I know that sometimes when I have friends round or we arrive somewhere I'm exhausted and drop my guard. Before I know it the dog is greeting someone too enthusiastically and I'm staring blankly without registering it's my job to gain control of the situation. Or my child has reached for a fragile ornament and same, I'm in zombie mode.
Could that be the case?

@fitzwilliamdarcy thanks for the response. That sounds terrible! Why do parents allow that?

I think it would cause problems with this particular friend if I did that (again, because her child does no wrong) as much as I'd love to do it.

I do know the mother would hate to pay for two mains for her child so I'm instead going to tell say to the mother/my friend her child can have it and I'll order another.

It's the having to pay for all her child eats that will get her child sitting in her chair (for a short while at least) eating her own food rather than any extra assertiveness with the child.

Ultimately, the parent is the problem not the child so the child can do as she wishes/her parent allows but if they make it my problem by eating my dinner then I will be ordering another and the parent can pay.

Thanks everyone for advice and helping me think that through.