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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Son dropped out of college and secretly studied other qualification

200 replies

SharpOliveHam · 24/07/2024 20:00

Son is 23. Very bright. Went to one of the top grammar schools in the UK. Got 100% in one of his maths A levels. But equally he leaves things to the last minute, possibly has ADD. If he’s not interested good luck getting him to do anything.

Son messed up his AS Levels (did well in one subject) and chose to leave his grammar school for the local college.

Son confessed that he messed up AGAIN at college and instead of repeating another year he actually dropped out of college and studied an Access course with a distance learning place.

He went to Edinburgh University! Paid for course with Saturday job money and birthday money. Son confesses to Dh and I he would study at the local town library. We received no letters or phone calls from the college.

I’m pleased he had the tenacity to do this but hurt he couldn’t confide in me. His siblings have been successful with academics - one is studying dentistry and the other is at Oxbridge. So assume pressure was a part of it.

I just wanted to share as I am still trying to process this. He told us he got AAB.

OP posts:
S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 16:18

HotCrossBunplease · 25/07/2024 16:17

I wonder how exactly it did work in this case though?

Edited

Me too.

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 25/07/2024 16:33

@KreedKafer - I do think because parents are supposed to ensure their dcs are in education or employment until 18, and schools do contact parents about their dcs grades in years 12&13, that colleges (which are presented as the same as doing A levels at a school) don’t contact parents is a surprise to many.

throw in as well that parents are expected to provide their income details for loan applications for their adult children going to uni, it does give the impression it is their business.

further and higher education are areas where as a country we really aren’t consistent about who’s independent, who’s a dependent and where the change happens.

SharpOliveHam · 25/07/2024 16:59

Bigbadmama · 24/07/2024 21:18

He's 23 and has proved he can do it without you. Time to let go ?

I have let it all go. To be honest I was never the type of mum to be breathing down my kids neck when it came to studying. I genuinely had no time with running my own business.

Anyway ds starts a grad scheme in September in a completely different city. I am still blown away by all he had to do to maintain the lie but what’s done is done. Just glad the wheels didn’t completely come off.

OP posts:
CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 17:27

S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 14:29

What context would apply here, to a student from what op describes as a top grammar school?

Not sure if this helps give context - My kiddo, privately educated until 16, had an ASD/ADHD meltdown when they left to attend a state 6th form. Tried again second year but was still awaiting diagnosis. Rinse repeat. Two years behind - nearly three.

Is now about to start, at 19, an access course at the local tech. It was a simple case of online application, proof of GCSES (which were excellent, 10 all 7-9s, which I am going to guess OP’s son’s were). At 16 the 6th forms don’t engage with the parents - the application has to be done by student. They only contact you if there are issues but you can see what’s going on on the parent portal. They are very much ‘the child is in charge’ and parents need to butt out. The Access course which is usually at an adult ed/tech college is the same. At 18 an applicant is legally an adult, adding my/parental details was optional. As my child has no Level 3 qualifications and will be 19 when starting, it is also free, so again, no need to contact me.

Most of the access courses run by the local group of colleges (eg Activate Learning) are actually on line. Attendance in person is currently only required if doing certain STEM subjects or a practical one, like Art & Design, though the timing suggests this took place before COVID, so perhaps it was all in person back then?

It would, therefore, be perfectly feasible that he sorted this out without any help. Nearly every university we have looked at accepts Access Diplomas on the proviso that they get distinctions/Merits (3x distinctions, the max score is equivalent to 148 UCAS points - ie 3As at A Level). Not Oxbridge of course, but all the London colleges bar Imperial, and all the Art Schools. The post code of the institution is what counts, rather than that of the child’s address, and most Access Course providers are listed as eligible for a contextual offer - my child will be eligible despite our personal family circumstances and [acc to the EA leaflets] a ‘desirable’ post code, although the ADHD/ASD is also a consideration.

As I said above - I think OP’s son showed remarkable resilience and backbone doing this under his own steam. Whatever OP may feel, the family culture will have communicated implicitly that his failure was not acceptable (choosing a grammar school for example is an express demonstration of the importance attached to academic achievement). I remain deeply saddened that an 18/19 year old felt that he had to go to such lengths to hide what he was doing and that, when he passed, he still didn’t feel he could admit that he had an Access Diploma rather than A Levels - it was only his first from UoE that it gave him the courage to confess.

If I were the parent of a child doing this I would be mortified that my conduct made him feel this way. And I say this as one half of a high achieving academic/professional family - DH went to Cambridge, I have 3 degrees and am one year off a PhD. We could care less if our children go to university, we just want them to have goals and a career that lights them up. We bend over backwards to communicate this to our kids. We are not the benchmark for their lives.

S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 17:34

So are there any entry requirements for an access course, @CautiousLurker ?
Or can you literally fail A Levels and then do an access the following year instead of repeating?
I always understood they were for people who didn't have qualifications but had been out of education for some time.

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 17:43

S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 17:34

So are there any entry requirements for an access course, @CautiousLurker ?
Or can you literally fail A Levels and then do an access the following year instead of repeating?
I always understood they were for people who didn't have qualifications but had been out of education for some time.

You have to have GCSEs - usually at least English and Maths grade 4/C.

The idea of an Access to HE Diploma course originally (decades ago!) was to encourage people who left school at 16 or without A Levels to return to education and apply to university. I have several professional friends and an ex boyfriend in the 1990s who did them in their twenties before going to uni as mature students. On the tech college open day there were loads of people in their 20’s planning to do the Health Care/Nursing ones; my child started off wanting to do sciences but really just wants to study art/animation so the cohort is slightly different.

In a sense, all they’ve done is lower the age at which you can apply to do them and it means that kids that have derailed at 17/18 have access to an alternative on-ramp back into education. Think it’s great, personally, as it offers young people who’ve had a blip or are following a different developmental/maturity path a safety net.

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 17:56

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 17:43

You have to have GCSEs - usually at least English and Maths grade 4/C.

The idea of an Access to HE Diploma course originally (decades ago!) was to encourage people who left school at 16 or without A Levels to return to education and apply to university. I have several professional friends and an ex boyfriend in the 1990s who did them in their twenties before going to uni as mature students. On the tech college open day there were loads of people in their 20’s planning to do the Health Care/Nursing ones; my child started off wanting to do sciences but really just wants to study art/animation so the cohort is slightly different.

In a sense, all they’ve done is lower the age at which you can apply to do them and it means that kids that have derailed at 17/18 have access to an alternative on-ramp back into education. Think it’s great, personally, as it offers young people who’ve had a blip or are following a different developmental/maturity path a safety net.

I had friends who did Access and they studied for their Maths and English GCSEs alongside it.

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 18:36

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 17:56

I had friends who did Access and they studied for their Maths and English GCSEs alongside it.

My teen had to have those qualifications in order to apply - they’re quite adamant now that you have it up front. I can see that you’d need to have it in order to do engineering or science, though, as the Access Dip is meant to be A Level standard and you’re not allowed to do A Levels without them either anymore (my youngest is going up to 6th form in Sept and his place is contingent on passing - he would have to take a year out, resit and reapply next year if he fails either of them).

S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 18:50

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 17:56

I had friends who did Access and they studied for their Maths and English GCSEs alongside it.

What degree were they aiming for if they hadn't even passed GCSE's?

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 19:06

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 18:36

My teen had to have those qualifications in order to apply - they’re quite adamant now that you have it up front. I can see that you’d need to have it in order to do engineering or science, though, as the Access Dip is meant to be A Level standard and you’re not allowed to do A Levels without them either anymore (my youngest is going up to 6th form in Sept and his place is contingent on passing - he would have to take a year out, resit and reapply next year if he fails either of them).

That's interesting. They did say the Access course was very hard - some said harder than their degree!

My DS is doing T levels. He has his Maths and English GCSE but some don't and are studying them alongside.

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 19:08

S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 18:50

What degree were they aiming for if they hadn't even passed GCSE's?

Nursing. They had studied the GCSEs at school but not got an A-C pass, obviously they had other GCSEs. You had to have at least a C in Maths & English GCSE to get on our course. You also had to pass a Maths and English test as part of the interview process.

S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 19:10

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 19:08

Nursing. They had studied the GCSEs at school but not got an A-C pass, obviously they had other GCSEs. You had to have at least a C in Maths & English GCSE to get on our course. You also had to pass a Maths and English test as part of the interview process.

I think nursing should never have become a degree course, tbh.

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 19:14

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 19:06

That's interesting. They did say the Access course was very hard - some said harder than their degree!

My DS is doing T levels. He has his Maths and English GCSE but some don't and are studying them alongside.

Tbh can’t see why they shouldn’t do it along side, personally, rather than lose a year. Reckon it’s a funding/LA policy thing rather than anything else. I don’t think we necessarily need a population educated to degree level, I do think education, however long it takes, should be free up to L3/A Level.

I do take heart from this post that a young person found his drive and got to university- I hope my teen will similarly get through this next year and go on to do the planned art/animation degree… am obviously trying to be supportive and not directive, but am sure they look at us (and younger sibling who is about to do 4 A Levels and wants to study medicine) and ‘feels’ we want nothing less than a university education. We don’t. We just want them to be self confident and happy in whatever lifepath they chose - but I think that message gets lost when you are parenting and anxious for their futures, which is no doubt what has happened with OP and her son.

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 19:22

S1lverCandle · 25/07/2024 19:10

I think nursing should never have become a degree course, tbh.

Why not? Nurses with degrees are safer nurses. It also encourages research which is really important. I'm an advanced nurse practitioner - believe me I wouldn't be able to do this job without degree level teaching.

Sunshineandpool · 25/07/2024 19:24

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 19:14

Tbh can’t see why they shouldn’t do it along side, personally, rather than lose a year. Reckon it’s a funding/LA policy thing rather than anything else. I don’t think we necessarily need a population educated to degree level, I do think education, however long it takes, should be free up to L3/A Level.

I do take heart from this post that a young person found his drive and got to university- I hope my teen will similarly get through this next year and go on to do the planned art/animation degree… am obviously trying to be supportive and not directive, but am sure they look at us (and younger sibling who is about to do 4 A Levels and wants to study medicine) and ‘feels’ we want nothing less than a university education. We don’t. We just want them to be self confident and happy in whatever lifepath they chose - but I think that message gets lost when you are parenting and anxious for their futures, which is no doubt what has happened with OP and her son.

Yes, I agree. I asked OP what her relationship with her son was like now because I think she can pull it back.

LuckbeaLady2 · 25/07/2024 19:31

What an appalling college although he's probably over 18 so they couldn't contact you
I think it's shows lots of wondeful qualities, good luck to him!

VividQuoter · 25/07/2024 20:03

I think you are just like my father was. Education and money onto a pedestal.

redskydarknight · 25/07/2024 20:24

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 19:14

Tbh can’t see why they shouldn’t do it along side, personally, rather than lose a year. Reckon it’s a funding/LA policy thing rather than anything else. I don’t think we necessarily need a population educated to degree level, I do think education, however long it takes, should be free up to L3/A Level.

I do take heart from this post that a young person found his drive and got to university- I hope my teen will similarly get through this next year and go on to do the planned art/animation degree… am obviously trying to be supportive and not directive, but am sure they look at us (and younger sibling who is about to do 4 A Levels and wants to study medicine) and ‘feels’ we want nothing less than a university education. We don’t. We just want them to be self confident and happy in whatever lifepath they chose - but I think that message gets lost when you are parenting and anxious for their futures, which is no doubt what has happened with OP and her son.

But why would they feel that you would only consider a university education good enough? If you've been as supportive as you say you have and are happy for them to pursue whatever path they want, why would they think that?

I've noticed that an awful lot of parents on MN in response to a poster with a 17 or 18 year old will say "I assume they are off to university soon" even if the post has nothing to do with university and there's no suggestion that the teen is planning to go. Has your child been brought up in a house where the conversation focused on university as the default? If so, it's not surprising if your child thinks that's what you expect.

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 21:55

redskydarknight · 25/07/2024 20:24

But why would they feel that you would only consider a university education good enough? If you've been as supportive as you say you have and are happy for them to pursue whatever path they want, why would they think that?

I've noticed that an awful lot of parents on MN in response to a poster with a 17 or 18 year old will say "I assume they are off to university soon" even if the post has nothing to do with university and there's no suggestion that the teen is planning to go. Has your child been brought up in a house where the conversation focused on university as the default? If so, it's not surprising if your child thinks that's what you expect.

Nope - that’s an incredibly simplistic interpretation.

If 100% of their peers are going, all talking about uni open days; if their mother is still at university (I’ve done a BSc, MA and now PhD while my two are in their teens); if the narrative at school is that bright kids should naturally progress through A Levels and on to uni (it was Blair’s dream to get 50% of kids into uni); then a young person would naturally infer that their parents and society values a university education. It would be disingenuous of me to sit revising for my masters exams or prepping for a PhD viva and tell a child that it isn’t important. Why would I be pursuing it if I didn’t value it, why would all their mates from school be going?

And if you say that you are relaxed about them not going, about them taking a different path… then how do you do that without them inferring that what you’re really saying is that you don’t think they’re good enough, that your expectations for them are lower?

Honestly, as a parent you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, especially as you don’t operate in a vacuum. Parenting happens within a social context - of school, society and their mates. At school my child was told they should apply to Oxbridge (she has 10 GCSE, 5x9, 3x8 and 2x7). Well meaning teachers intending to be encouraging, but instead piling on the pressure. It crushed her.

OP’s son went to a grammar school, his older siblings made the progression, his parents are uni educated. I suspect he went through a similar cycle. Of course he, like my teens, feel its expected and that diverging from the norm is an issue.

AngelaShrute · 25/07/2024 22:09

I'd be incredibly emotional about this, because it sounds like he went through a really difficult time and couldn't tell you and had to pretend everything was OK.

Going forwards I'd make sure he knows he can come to you with anything in the future, that would be my priority as a mother.

Charlottescobweb · 25/07/2024 23:10

SharpOliveHam · 25/07/2024 12:30

Yes the scale of the deception is what is shocking.

Did you cry in front of him when he failed his AS 1st year courses?
Do you think he was worried that he would let you down again if he told you he was failing college as well?
He's an adult now so you have to treat him like an adult. He does owe you an explanation and an apology for lying to you. I wasn't trying to minimise your feelings.

Unexpecteddrivinginstructor · 25/07/2024 23:39

choosing a grammar school for example is an express demonstration of the importance attached to academic achievement

In some counties this is not really particularly reflecting on the parents views on academic achievement when they choose this for a child who is relatively intelligent. When the top 25% of the cohort attend a grammar school and the other schools are predominantly aiming for grades 4-7 at GCSE it makes it hard for a very able student to be in a non grammar school. The fact that the OP thought it was relevant is perhaps more indicative but I would not read too much into the original choice.

redskydarknight · 26/07/2024 07:48

CautiousLurker · 25/07/2024 21:55

Nope - that’s an incredibly simplistic interpretation.

If 100% of their peers are going, all talking about uni open days; if their mother is still at university (I’ve done a BSc, MA and now PhD while my two are in their teens); if the narrative at school is that bright kids should naturally progress through A Levels and on to uni (it was Blair’s dream to get 50% of kids into uni); then a young person would naturally infer that their parents and society values a university education. It would be disingenuous of me to sit revising for my masters exams or prepping for a PhD viva and tell a child that it isn’t important. Why would I be pursuing it if I didn’t value it, why would all their mates from school be going?

And if you say that you are relaxed about them not going, about them taking a different path… then how do you do that without them inferring that what you’re really saying is that you don’t think they’re good enough, that your expectations for them are lower?

Honestly, as a parent you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, especially as you don’t operate in a vacuum. Parenting happens within a social context - of school, society and their mates. At school my child was told they should apply to Oxbridge (she has 10 GCSE, 5x9, 3x8 and 2x7). Well meaning teachers intending to be encouraging, but instead piling on the pressure. It crushed her.

OP’s son went to a grammar school, his older siblings made the progression, his parents are uni educated. I suspect he went through a similar cycle. Of course he, like my teens, feel its expected and that diverging from the norm is an issue.

If 100% of their peers are talking about university Open Days and the narrative at school is that bright children should progress through A Levels to university ... then that's symptomatic of the school that was chosen by the parent. i.e. the parent chose the school because that aligned with their own thinking (as OP has, in sending her child to a "top grammar".

I have a bright DD who has just finished Year 13. Not all her peers are talking about university and some of her friends from Year 11 did not progress through A Levels. DD is intending to go to university (also enocuraged to apply to Oxbridge but made her own decision not to) but the school made it very clear that there were other options, as we have at home. (My oldest did not go to university).

My same age niece goes to a very selective private school. One of the boys in her year group wanted to do a degree apprenticeship but he received zero support from the school in this aim as they were fully focussed in getting students into top universities (in fact, he was asked to complete a UCAS form even though he had no interest in going to uni).

I am guessing that your DD is more in the second type of environment than the first. So you will have to work much harder as a parent to counter the "must go to university" narrative if that's what you think. As a younger child, seeing that his siblings may have gone to university but that wasn't the natural order of things will also have helped with this.

PumpkinPie2016 · 26/07/2024 08:05

I can understand you being a bit shocked, but I don't think it's worth getting overly worked up about.

Maybe A-level just didn't suit him - it doesn't for a lot of students. Perhaps, given how bright he is and the fact that his siblings have done so well, he felt that failing his 2nd attempt was something he wanted to keep private. Ultimately, that's his choice.
He didn't do nothing- he did an access course, of his own accord, showing resilience and determination and then went to an excellent university and gained a first class degree.

Good for him I say!

maddening · 26/07/2024 08:22

BarHumbugs · 24/07/2024 21:05

Hold on, he's 23 and he already has his degree from Edinburgh? And he did an access course aged 19? That would have put him at 20 when he started uni. How did he do a 4 year degree in 3 years? Is my Maths all messed up again?

Edited

I joined mu degree in Edinburgh in year 2 as the 1st year was equivalent of a foundation which I had covered in England.