CF Neigbour Using Hot Tub

[grandmabrown]

Summer 2022 we suspect someone was using our garden while we were out as things began to move and on occasions the hot tub appeared used. We didn't think too much of it to be honest, with teenage children (who denied using it) things do often move and we were busy so didnt give it too much thought. Looking back now though that is when things started happening. Earlier in 2024 we went away and, upon return, a friend commented that she had popped round on her way past, nobody answered the door, she heard noises in the back garden and had come in through the side gate. There greeted by a family, using our hot tub and garden, who told her we had gone to X location and would be back on X date (both details correct), they were watching the house for us. When we got back we were baffled, asked around, nobody knew anything. We are part of a neighbourhood watch whatsapp group. We all keep an eye on each others cars and houses when away and update one another if we see anyone acting strange hanging round or any crime. We asked on this group and nobody had seen anything but one of the group members helped my husband to install security cameras and a ring doorbell and nothing has happened since.

Fast forward to now, my street-neighbour, lets call her Helen (as this is her name), and I have always been on a smile and wave basis. I only know her families names from the Christmas cards we send/receive. Recently Helen has been acting off towards me and I appear to be annoying her by existing. She will sigh if she sees me and I have caught her on more than one occasion glaring across at me and pointing at my house while talking. I have become sick of this and asked another neighbour, who I am friendly with, what was going on. Neutral neighbour seemed very awkward and said she didn't want to stir the pot or tell tales. Eventually she said Helen was annoyed at me as I had promised her use of my garden and hot tub for her sons birthday/end of term party but had revoked it and "caused a scene" about intruders, which she know was aimed at her, on the neighbourhood Whatsapp. Apparently the party was due to be when we are on holiday and I had said if she kept an eye on the house they could have full run of the garden but changed my mind, leaving her son with nowhere to host and all his friends thinking the party is going ahead. Helen said we have had this arrangement before and she does not understand why I am changing it now. This is not true. At all. I have never had a conversation with her, let alone offered to host a party for her. I checked with DH & DC and nobody has spoken to them or said they can use our property to host.

I have a million questions for her but don't know where to start. Obviously I now believe they were the family using our garden and it explains how she knew locations and return dates of our holidays. I do not know how to approach this or what to ask. Surely they will deny it. But the outright lie she has told our neighbour is harder to deny. What do I do? There is no way they are using my garden but now I am also worried that, when we go away, our garden may be used. The cameras will alert us on our phones and we can ring the police but I would really rather not cause a neighbour dispute and end up down that route. I am absolutely baffled by the audacity that someone would do this and then be mad about it, without ever even having a conversation with me.

Send a message to the WhatsApp group saying something along the lines of:

"As you all know, we go away on ???.

It has been brought to our attention that a neighbour and their family have been using our hot tub whilst we are away.

I haven't given permission for this so should be grateful if you could please keep an eye out to ensure this doesn't happen again, as we will take the matter up with the police".

I hope that other neighbors haven't used your hot tub and garden while you were away, and it was only found out when Helen used it again and got caught by your friend.

Is there any chance she could be right? Or is she just nucking futz?

I would also write in your Whats App: "I have been told that I gave permission for any neighbor to use our back garden and hot tub while we are away, and that many have. This was told to me by the last person whose family used the hot tub and back garden and had planned a party back there (and got caught). I am not sure if this is a "story" to lessen culpability or what, but let me be clear. My back garden and hot tub are not for use by anyone, ever, when we are not home and an invite has not been issued. If this was a false story told me by said neighbor, take it up with her. Thank you."

Yep, I would let the WA group know that she's trying to drop others in it.

Either she is lying... they'll potentially take it up with her.

Or she's telling the truth ... they then all know you're on to them.

I don't really see that 'not embarrassing or pissing off Helen' is worth consideration. She is pissed off, she'll be pissed off from now til kingdom come because she's been caught out and she was already pissed off that you've got a hot tub and she hasn't... so that ship sailed long ago and probably before you even knew her.

Thanks for your update OP.
You absolutely did the right thing by waiting for your husband to return and then going together to ask her to explain herself.
Her husband will know that she has lied and he will be embarrassed even if she isn’t. Up to him how he squares it all up with her.

Sadly, you can’t change her character but you have stood your ground well and at least, given her a firm warning now. It’s difficult not to be extremely frustrated with her constant leading you in circles and blaming you when you all know she made up the permission in the first place. Her audacity is off the scale and she will trip herself up good and proper one of these days especially with that chip on her shoulder. Just be happy you know her true character now. She can never be trusted.

She is so brazen and shameless that there’s a possibility she will try to blacken your name with the other street neighbours, casting you as the evil one and herself as the victim in her false story telling.
If and when you hear on the grapevine that she has done this, that’s the time to tell the real story on WA…..simply in order to clear up the confusion she is creating, not to be vindictive. Make sure you keep a record of what has been done and said with exact dates in case you need to refer to it later down the line.

For now, other than ensuring your home is as secure as it possibly can be, and your insurance is sound, I wouldn't do anything except be wary of her.
If any other neighbour asks about it, face to face, explain her dishonesty and tell them that she said other neighbours had also used your garden and hot tub without your permission. It’s also worth explaining how the insurance aspect would have been another reason not to grant permission.

From what you have written here, it seems pretty clear that Helen is the only culprit who sees her only option is to brazen it out by telling more lies to cover the previous lies. I wonder how she sleeps at night.

I would definitely put something on the WhatsApp group. Is the husband on it as well as the wife?

I don’t understand how anyone can just walk into your garden and access your property though? Don’t you have a fence/lock, @grandmabrown ? Is that not an Insurance no-no?!

And if they had to climb over a fence to get in (presuming your property is secure), wouldn’t the husband have realised they didn’t have permission!?

I would not send a general what's app message but I may message everyone in the group privately to let them know a neighbour on the street (name them if you want) has trespassed and hosted parties on your property while you were away and they should be vigilant about their own properties.

I would also stop posting in a what's app group the dates you are going to be away. Let one neighbour know that you trust. I think that is a crazy idea, unless you can vouch for every single neighbour on that group.

Well Helen’s definitely a cf who has decided you don’t like her. I would stop putting holiday dates on the group chat tbh. She sounds a little crazy!

I had one like her.

Apart from fly tipping plus using our patio and garden (prior to the fly tipping) she filled our bins with the rubbish from her garden re-model. (Of course, all the bins were used as if they were landfill, so I had that to sort out.)

She also stole a bin. It had the house number on it and she locked it in her back garden so I had to knock to get it back.

She sent her teenage daughter to the door. They didn't return it as I told them to; they just took it out on bin day and abandoned it.

I retrieved it, and went to her door to tell her to keep her hands off the bins in in future.

"You weren't using it anyway!"

"I couldn't. You had it."

"It's not yours. It's the council's!"

"I pay council tax for it."

"I'm a police officer! You banged on the door and alarmed my child."

"If you're a police officer, you should know better than leaving your child on her own."

"My child is 17!"

I also pointed out that a police officer should know not to take someone else's bin. [Yes, I know...I was getting to be ridiculous.]

"I didn't take the bin. My husband did!"

In the end, I reiterated that she should stay away from our property.

That didn't work, of course - hence her dumping of the "Exotic Nights" parcel in our garden. Leaving it on her doorstep and letting the neighbours know about it did the trick. By then, I figured that I had no fucks dignity left to lose.

@grandmabrown I tend to agree with a couple of other posters, that another post on What's App might be the best way to go, but I would try not to be too aggressive about it, as you don't want to piss your others neighbours off. Something Like:

Following on from my previous post about the use of our hot-tub and garden while we are away, I have now discovered that there were rumours going about that we had told people that they could use it any time we are not there. I just want to clear up any confusion or misunderstandings that may have occurred as a result.

I just need to clarify that there is no way we can allow this nor have we never offered for it to be used while we were away - apart from anything else there could be major Insurance consequences if we are not there and anything happens.

I'm sure everyone understands

You feel it’s unresolved as she’s refusing to accept responsibility for the CF actions she’s displayed.
i’d say the fact her husband had been told by her that he thought they could use it confirms her guilt and swerving of offering an apology and promise not to do it again!
Well done to you (and hubby) for calling her out on it. She won’t like it so I’d say to just watch your back going forwards. 😀

I'd have told her to arrest her husband.

Some of your stories of CF are shocking.

To answer some more questions...

We have a 6ft fence round the back garden with gate with bolt lock but no padlock/lock. We have a dog walker that accesses the back garden via the gate and a window cleaner so have never put a padlock on it. The gate will have been bolted shut, as it is every day, so I presume they have reached over/climbed and unbolted it. Obviously now we are purchasing a lock for the gate and the dog walker will have to be given a front door key.

They did not access my house or toilet. Im very confused by this comment. They accesses my garden. I presume they either wee'd at their own house or....in my hot tub.

Not a clue about the drinking, honestly never even been near the family. Apart from a hello on the driveway we did not chat.

Both are on the whatsapp from what I can tell.

I dont believe the other neighbours have but who knows. I really dont think so though. Most have hot tubs of their own, we arent special. It was just something we bought for the teens during lockdown and will be getting rid of once they leave home as they are the only ones who use it. Surely if others had used it someone would have piped up when DH mentioned it on the group? Mutual neighbour and neighbour who helped install the cameras did not mention the fact anyone else used it, so 99.9% no on that front.

I am hoping its all over now but if anything she says comes back to us or she comes near the property again we will write a whatsapp message. I just do hate to be the topic of gossip. If it was another neighbour I know there would be whispering and I dont want to be the subject of this. Its so stupid and undignified.

I wish I'd been that quick witted!

Obviously now we are purchasing a lock for the gate

Well, good idea, but I think I would have bought a lock the second this had happened earlier in the year…!

Earlier in 2024 we went away and, upon return, a friend commented that she had popped round on her way past, nobody answered the door, she heard noises in the back garden and had come in through the side gate. There greeted by a family, using our hot tub and garden

Surely, that would have put an end of anyone trespassing on your property!

Omg this whole story is madness! I definitely agree with others who have suggested sending a private message to those in the group telling them each that a neighbour has been using your garden without permission and to be careful about their own properties. Absolutely do not post the dates you are away in the group, I think that was a bit fool hardy from the beginning. Just let one trusted neighbour know when it is that you’re away

We purchased security cameras so we can keep an eye on it, and hopefully catch whoever it was. Which worked - they havn't been back. Locking the gate causes much more issues as other people need access to the back garden. This now means we have to leave the gate unlocked on certain days when the garden is mowed and windows are washed. These people are weather dependant so our days change. We have an extension on the back of the house that we are able to lock from our kitchen and the dog stays there if I am at appointments or meetings. The walker then lets herself into the back garden and uses the extension key to get the dog. To lock the back garden means giving the dog walker access to the entire house via the front, which I did not really want to do. It was easier to install a camera and announce it being there.

Pop a bolt with a combination lock on it. The code can easily be given to dog walkers, window cleaners etc and easy to change if number is compromised

That was what I had to do in the end.

I agree with the wording except for the very final bit - I'd say "take it up with them" so that you're not indicating one way or the other whether the CF is Helen or her husband or someone else.

Post on the Whatsapp group - please be aware of a scam we've been a victim of, where someone says they have permission to use our house and garden when we're on holiday. They don't have this. Keep your gates locked people! Thank goodness we have this group". Watch her squirm and recall the invites. Put a "no, there's no party here" on the gate before you go on holiday.

I’d be tempted to put on the WhatsApp group fake holiday dates or stop adding them at all. (You forgot.)

after the first couple of weeks, you can probably leave your garden unlocked for trades people, as long as Helen knows there’s a lock and cameras she’s unlikely to try it again.

If it really is a hassle to put a lock on then only use it when you go away and not just if you have popped out during the day.

to be honest though as they have been reaching or climbing over to unbolt it there’s a chance that they might just continue to climb over so personally I would use going away as an opportunity to empty and deep clean it before filling it again once you are home as I don’t think they will be able or infact arsed to fill it themselves!

As you feel it’s not wholly resolved having spoken to her I would suggest one more WhatsApp to get closure. Simply say to everyone that ‘a conversation has taken place, during which it has become clear there is some misunderstood belief that I give permission for neighbours to use our hot tub and garden in our absence. I would like to take this opportunity to clarify this is not the case. What has passed has passed now, but nobody is to enter our home premises at all when we are not in. For the avoidance of doubt, additional security measures have been taken, and our home will be being monitored by family members in our absence.’ Don’t name her, which I appreciate you had no intention of doing anyway, but do now move on from it.

I would be looking to add two bolts on the gate - one top one bottom, as well as your camera monitor. A motion sensor light may also be an idea; even if your next door neighbours don’t actually see, any intruder won’t know that. The downside is it will go on with any wildlife visiting. But it could be that you only turn it on when away. These should give you peace of mind, but the chances are she’s unlikely to try her luck again. It also means that if anyone else had taken it upon themselves to take a dip, their plans are scuppered now.

Has anything happened since? She didn’t try again to access your property while you were away again, did she? I’m still shocked at the cheek of her.