ANGRY! ( and I've fucked up)

[marmoet]

My very elderly parents have recently gone into a nursing home after both having stints in hospital. Prior to that they were very dodgily living at home alone but stubborn and happy .
As my sister and I are both POA and do not get on this has caused a lot of friction but I thought we were sorted.
They have been in the nursing home for about a month ( after 2 months in hospital) and today I went by their house to check the place as it is empty and their car was gone.
I rang my sister worried it was stolen and she said that mum and dad had "lent" it to her partner. He has driven it interstate ( Australia , so hundrends of kms). WHen I spoke to my parents they thought he was "borrowing it to go to somewhere for work ( a completely different city), and basically had no idea . They are very old. My sister has a car and her partner has a car, both expensive ones btw.
I got cranky and pointed out that they have a grandson who has no car , then they started crying and then I felt bad , as I behaved badly but I'm fecked either way.
They are saying things like we always had dogs ( when I was never allowed one). They are denying the fact that we spent our life tip-toeing around my sister "be quiet , she's asleep, come and help with the grdening". It's like my life didn't exist as there is nobody left to verify it.
Sorry for such a pathetic unloading.
If the car had been at my sisters I would seriously gone over and driven it here, but he has taken it interstate and I don't know the plate number. Neither do my parents. My sister gets all of their mail delivered to her.

Look, your feelings and account are a bit jumbled. Obviously lots of strong feelings here both in terms of your parents losing capacity and having to make decisions with someone who you don't get on with. It's obviously not really about the car as an asset, it's about the feeling that your sister still does what she likes and your parents just go along with it. I don't think the car is the hill to die on here. I would find someone to talk to about how you feel and make sense of it so that you can cope better with this relationship whilst your parents are alive.

PS I don't know how capacity and PoA work in Australia so I'm not saying what your sister has done is right. Regardless of who holds the car it belongs to your parents and is an asset, I would think? But I do think that when you say to your parents who lack capacity to make financial decisions that they should have thought of your grandson first, that is about your feelings as a daughter/sister/parent and not your duties as a PoA.

They're BOTH PoAs

I assume they can't act independantly

Very much this op. None of these people are going to change and your pent up rage is going to do you harm sooner or later, and none of them will understand or care about that either. Sorry op, I do feel your hurt and anger - you need to find coping strategies to help. Re the practicalities, you have joint POA, so seek legal advice if it would help you understand your rights here (I thought neither of you can act without the other in any decision making). Good luck

Why did you agree to be POA with someone you don't get on with? That defeats the whole purpose of it.

You're piling all your years of feeling like the second-class daughter, un-listened to, and invalidated, onto something tangible. In this case, a car.
The car is irrelevant. You said yourself in your first post that your parents gave permission for the car to be used, and you also said you wanted it for your son. You've got sour grapes that your sister got in there first. Further compounding your feelings of being ignored and second-class.

It isn't the car that's the problem. It's a whole lot deeper than that. Perhaps the car was just the straw that broke the camels back. It sounds like you don't like your sister at all, nor your parents. So perhaps now that you've got them settled into the old folks home, now is the time to back off a bit, and spend time with your chosen people instead.

As you and your sister have power of attorney you have a duty to act in your parents best interests. Their best interests isn't taking their car for your sister's partner or for your son. (If your son was going to pay a fair price he can just buy any other car that is fairly priced surely). Their best interests now that they cannot use their car is selling it for the best price you can get, to use the money towards their care fees.

I think you should give your sister a choice - get the car sold at market value and the money paid into your parents account (within 28 days) or you will report her to the authorities to get her removed as power of attorney for abusing her power and not acting in your parents interests. In the UK this would be the court of protection.

Why must your son buy this car? If he was going to buy it for fair value then surely he can buy another car?

This is an important point - you can't assume it's joint and several.

If there is POA in place then they can’t make decisions like that - this is to protect them.

If one POA is abusing their position then go to the solicitor who appointed them.

I’m not sure but if there are two POA in place then shouldn’t they both have to agree where financial decisions are made?

However you say you would have taken the car yourself so she got there first.

I think you both need a meeting with the solicitor to clarify your positions.

I'd be fuming, he took advantage, your sister wasn't honest if your parents don't even know where the car is.
Grasping fuckers.

I'm shocked at some of these responses "Maybe he didn't want to drive that far in he's expensive car" SO WHAT, he should have thought of that when he 1/ bought an expensive car and 2/ accepted a job so far away.

Do you definitely know it's not coming back though?

How will the BIL get home without it? Is he flying back or something?
Why don't you make your parents an offer, if they accept then tell your BIL "time to bring the car back my DS has bought it now."

Your BIL wont have ownership papers, if he doesn't bring it back, then he has stolen it.

I get it OP. It sounds like a frustrating situation off the back of a lifetime of family difficulties. YANBU given the context. Sorry this is happening.

Report your sister for abuse of Poa.
just do it. Investigations happen all the time.

if there’s nothing wrong, then there is nothing wrong.

Presumably your brother-in- law will have to bring the car back at some point. And it will have to be taxed and maintained if it is not soon sold. Your parents agreed to lend it to him, it is still in their names and you know who’s driving it. It has not been stolen.

You go on about your sister, but I think your having a go at your elderly parents and making them cry is worse.

You have got yourself into a passive-aggressive, martyred frame of mind that is no good for anyone. You could have made the proposal about your son buying the car. Waiting to make a perfectly reasonable proposal isn’t good behaviour - it’s pointless.But why don’t you make it now? Put it in writing to your sister: when your husband is back from his trip, can we discuss my son buying the car? We’ll have to sell it anyway, he doesn’t have a car and would like to buy it.

I agree with you. It’s very clear that they have taken advantage of your parents . Your parents are vulnerable and they’ve abused that. I too am gobsmacked that people think this is ok.

What do you mean by this???

You need advise from the government office that issued the POA and adult safeguarding. Processes are probably similar ish to those in the UK but you need specific advice.
POAs are not set in stone and can be removed.

Could you ask your sister to bring the car back so your son can buy it? Don't accuse her of being sneaky or manipulative just be up front about 'needing to make the most from mum and dad's assets to pay for their care home'. If she insists that they freely gifted it to her partner be surprised, rather than outraged (in the UK there are laws about "deprivation of assets" but that is because Local Authorities can become responsible for care home fees).

We all know your sister has been dishonest but it's a moral, not legal, dishonesty. You need to find ways to care less about her because your feelings will eat away at you, harm your last few years with your parents and not affect her at all.

The car is a symptom of the real problem which is your family’s dynamic. ‘How to do the work’ by Dr Nicole LePera is a good starting point. It focuses on upbringing and childhood. Read it.

And if I may, you need to do the work, because the anger that you’re feeling isn’t sustainable and it isn’t healthy. This situation is not going to end until well after the death of your parents and the finalisation of their estate (so up to a decade?) so it seems wise to put the work in now.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, sorting your head out so you can put the right boundaries in place and deal with disputes in a healthier manner is essential.

OP if you don't know the vehicle license plate, could you search for the insurance documents or other related vehicle documents (e.g. Australian equivalent of an MOT) to find it out? Another option is checking through your/your parents' camera roll - there's a chance you snapped a pic with the car in the background

you still seem incredibly angry about your childhood - I grew up in a similar environment, where my rapist brother could do no wrong in DM's eyes and was always the favoured one, and her forever insisting she'd treated us equally. Resolved by going NC with brother & very low contact with my parents.
Move on, leave it in the past.

& if the BiL had driven the car hundreds of miles away, presumably he is returning, or has he left your sister?

Grabby buggers. Insist that the value (pre him driving it interstate and racking up mileage) is deducted from their cut when the will is divided.

They had permission to drive it for a certain journey. Not to keep it and drive it 2000 miles out of state

Sunnyandsilly · Today 06:39
I don’t understand op. Your parents weren’t using the car, why do you object to them using it so much?

Are you always this lax with other peoples property. Do you drive off with other peoples cars when they are parked up somewhere because “they weren’t using it”
or see an open door as an invite to take whatever you want.

The reason why this is theft and abuse of POA is because have put more and more miles on the clock, even if the car does get back the amount it is worth will be affected by miles on the clock and I can’t see bil or sister compensating the parents for the depreciation

The car was supposed to be sold to pay for care home fees but atm it is another thing that can’t be done because sister has taken it.

Fume away - but don't take it out on your aged parents!

It sounds as though your sister is a a manipulative person and it is not surprising your vulnerable very old parents have succumbed. But that is no reason for you to have a go at them or start quizzing them about how they brought you both up - that is yonks ago! And it is likely that, as we all do, they did their best.

Have a go at your sister by all means - she sounds a bit of a chancer - but leave your parents be to find peace at the end of their lives.

Blimey, you've been getting a hard time on this thread. I think you need to get legal advice ASAP, you probably can't do anything about the car now but you need to make sure she doesn't do anything dodgy with the house sale.

Look they've been cheeky but they did ask your parents and they seem to think that it will be returned.

I don't understand why you don't think the car will be driven back? Have they got another base hundreds of miles away where they will keep the car?

Just tell your sister that once the car is back, that your DS would like to buy it. If the car isn't coming back and your mum and dad don't have enough funds, tell them to pay for the car.