ANGRY! ( and I've fucked up)

[marmoet]

My very elderly parents have recently gone into a nursing home after both having stints in hospital. Prior to that they were very dodgily living at home alone but stubborn and happy .
As my sister and I are both POA and do not get on this has caused a lot of friction but I thought we were sorted.
They have been in the nursing home for about a month ( after 2 months in hospital) and today I went by their house to check the place as it is empty and their car was gone.
I rang my sister worried it was stolen and she said that mum and dad had "lent" it to her partner. He has driven it interstate ( Australia , so hundrends of kms). WHen I spoke to my parents they thought he was "borrowing it to go to somewhere for work ( a completely different city), and basically had no idea . They are very old. My sister has a car and her partner has a car, both expensive ones btw.
I got cranky and pointed out that they have a grandson who has no car , then they started crying and then I felt bad , as I behaved badly but I'm fecked either way.
They are saying things like we always had dogs ( when I was never allowed one). They are denying the fact that we spent our life tip-toeing around my sister "be quiet , she's asleep, come and help with the grdening". It's like my life didn't exist as there is nobody left to verify it.
Sorry for such a pathetic unloading.
If the car had been at my sisters I would seriously gone over and driven it here, but he has taken it interstate and I don't know the plate number. Neither do my parents. My sister gets all of their mail delivered to her.

You may not believe it, but I for one genuinely wouldn't mind, as wouldn't a few others on the thread, by the sound of it. Surely better that than sitting on the drive gathering dust.

If the car had been given to your son, it wouldn't have been sat on the drive "minding the house" either, so that reeks of double standards, really.

No I don't think it's OK that he took the car. But then, would your sister think it was OK if your son had it? The fact you don't get on with your sister is clouding this for you. Your parents being elderly and frail is the important thing -be nice to them, one day they won't be here and you'll miss them. Let the issue of the car go, you're the only one it is stressing

Wormfanclub
The car was taken under false pretences from vulnerable people for whom she has power of attorney.
The parents have become a resource to plunder, which is far more important than who had what as a child, and who gets 'presents' (it was a loan) and who does not.

Did anyone in your family KNOW that your son wanted to buy the car? Aside from you, I mean. Did your parents or sister's family know that an offer was in the works?

It's a very different thing to take the car knowing a grandchild is trying to scrape together the money to make a fair offer vs just borrowing a car that is otherwise sitting idle.

Your sister got in there first. You now know the type of person she is. If your parents don't have capacity, then, depending on the law in OZ you could seek legal advice, as she's potentially stolen the vehicle.
However if your parents have capacity, then there is nothing you can do. It's ultimately their choice.
I think you should be prepared for a lot more grabby behaviour from your sister. I assume you are both executors to the will, should there be anything left over from care home fees? (I know that must sound mercenary, and I hope you parents have a long, comfortable and happy time in their care home) but I think you need to be prepared for unpleasant surprises once your parents have gone.
Tread carefully op, if you upset your parents, you'll be seen as the bad guy, but try not to let your sister operate a lone, when it comes to your parents finances, and make sure you have a copy of all their finances, to ensure your sister doesn't skim anything else off. I think you can assume from here on in you and your sister won't have a good relationship, and once you're no longer tied by your parents you'll be no contact.

Definitely. I'd email so there is an audit trail. Keep records. Check any bank accounts and make an inventory of valuables. Make sure you communicate in writing and raise concerns this way too.
I have friends who have been completely screwed over by greedy siblings basically stealing assets and hiding money which meant the parents didn't get the care they deserved initially

I can understand why you’re angry OP and I think you’re getting a hard time here. I think the problem is your sister and the only mistake you made was speaking to your parents about it rather than your sister. It sounds like she has taken advantage of the situation and not spoken to you about it as she knew you would object. If you both have POA then she should be communicating with you about what happens with your parents property. If you can then try to speak to her calmly about it. Ask when the car will be returned as your son would also like to borrow the car.

People saying the sister abused the POA because everything should be done in the parent’s’ interests: it’s feasible the sister had been talking to them about the car and they’d been stressing about it being left at the house and that’s why they were happy for her partner to take it. OP hadn’t had a conversation with either side about it so she wouldn’t necessarily know what’s been said. It sounds like communication needs to improve between them all.

So, is your BIL 2000km away and never coming back? Or did he drive it there and then ... come home via other means so he's effectively gave it to a friend? I'm unsure why it's not coming back but BIL is.

There are unfortunately people that exploit the generosity of others and it sounds like this has likely happened to your parents. However as most people have said, he did have permission to use the car although your parents didn’t know the full extent.

It does sound although like your difficult relationship with your sister is clouding your view. You’ve said that unoccupied houses in the area attract squatters and that the car should be used as a deterrent, but you were looking up the value for your son to offer to buy it? Would he be storing it on their drive in the evenings to keep using it as deterrent? If not the case, I don’t think you have much of an argument there. I did read where you say that you are planning to sell which does make sense but the house could be on the market for ages and we all know that the selling process is lengthy. In which time the car would need to be on the drive?

I get how annoyed you would be, in your position I would be too but the way you have gone about this to your parents is completely wrong. But like you say, you already know this.

We’ve been through similar. An old uncle of mine, by marriage, who never had anything to do with his “own” family developed advanced dementia and before we know it his nephew came back in the picture - while he was ill suddenly swooped in and became POA. He soon put my uncle in a care home and when my father went around to the house all of the valuables were missing. The nephew had taken them “for safe keeping”. My father got the police involved and they took it seriously until my father made a huge mistake of ranting and loosing the point when speaking to the police and made it more personal than factual. It was then just put down to domestic dispute and that was it. My uncle died, we weren’t told and we found out from a mutual friend. It then became evident that his nephew had wormed his way in while my uncle was vulnerable and got him to change his will so that everything went to him. My father and his siblings were part beneficiaries initially.

My advice would be to keep going around and keep a close eye in case anything goes missing.

Op the people who are saying it doesn’t matter have seen this before and seen how it breaks up families, that’s all. There was years of arguments in our extended family with everyone deciding they were entitled to this and that, or ‘but they’re rich’ etc etc. It was a horror movie to watch and it is all bullshit. It’s a damn car!!

They lent their daughter a car, if it was me and I was in a care home I’d say do what you want with it I’m in a damn care home!! They’ve enough shit to worry about, you need to address your anger (and I don’t mean your sister), I mean stop acting like a hurricane. Your parents are still here, they need love and laughter not bitterness and anger and the ‘I deserve it, they’ve enough’ shit.

If the BIL is on a trip presumably he will be returning from said trip, I don’t understand why you think the car will never return.

If your son can afford to buy the car from them at fair value it’s much cleaner for him to buy a different car, no emotions attached and muddying the waters.

It sounds like dealing with your sister has been difficult for your whole life and it all feels very unfair, try to get the house sold ASAP so you can have as little to do with her as possible.

If your son was going to make a fair market offer, he can do this on any other car. He doesn’t need to buy this specific car, and you are perpetuating the drama.

i get that you feel your sister is the chosen one, but live your life and stop feeding drama.

and be nicer to your parents - they won’t change their attitudes now, and you are being completely unreasonable to expect them to have some kind of epiphany at this stage in their lives.

If the DP need funds for their care home giving away their assets will be seen as deprivation of assets here in the UK not sure about Aus

All the " you're angry they got in first" people are clueless

Taking stuff, even with permission is going to come back to bite them.
I know of cases where the courts demand lump sums and the value of expensive items back.

I would quietly consult a solicitor and voice your concerns .
Try to put your anger to one side and stay calm

I think that was ops point unless I misunderstood, her son (the grandson she mentioned in the post ) doesn't even have a car and it could have gone to him but as always the sister is the one being selfish and taking and having anything she wants. But maybe I misunderstood this. 🤔

Weird you’re getting the faux-naïveté side of AIBU today, it really is a gamble! I totally understand where you’re coming from. Your parents aren’t in a sound enough state of mind to make decisions and your sister has taken advantage of that and made off with their car. Absolutely shite behaviour from her, I’d be just as annoyed as you are.

I completely get OP’s frustration here. I think it has to do with honesty in a much bigger way than just who said what over the car. Honesty from parents about what it was really like for op growing up. Honesty from dsis about what seems like a pretty disingenuous move. Families that are dysfunctional (mine was, not saying this one is the same) can be slippery things and it’s like death by a thousand little cuts over time, while each single instance of favouritism or whatever looks insignificant by itself, they hare to be seen all together to get the full picture. So what might seem or feel like an over-reaction is really just the final straw moment. I feel for you on this op and I hope you find a way to distance yourself from what doesn’t help you in this, if that’s what you need.

But I wouldn’t be ranting at my old frail parents who are in fact helpless in the situation. And guilt tripping them to grab the car for your own son.

Your sister sounds quite awful I m not denying that BUT you can’t eat your cake and have it.

also you know what your sister is like so I’d have got in immediately re the car and offered to buy it as soon as care was on the horizon.

I can almost guarantee you’ll be back in a few weeks / months saying your sister took all the choice objects from the house / accessed parents savings to buy them X but added $200 for her time to arrange and there is no way you could have foreseen this But isn’t she awful!!!!

you can foresee it. there will be more of this either

Keep sitting on the hill enjoying the moral high ground and being butthurt
OR
get in first and do a bit of land grabbing like her

you can’t change her behaviour and you can’t change your parents.

im pretty pragmatic personally I’d be going through the house and securing all items of value so they are secure, I get first pick and then can split equally (minus the car?) with shady sister

No. We don’t know from this thread if the parents have become “resources to plunder”.

We know that they were asked to lend/give one car, and they said yes. OP hasn’t stated that any other resources have been plundered. She dislikes her sister, but this doesn’t mean her sister has done this, or will do it.

I can think of several examples in real life of older relatives lending or giving their cars to younger relatives. It’s never been a big deal. It’s better than letting the car sit and gather dust. You have to keep the engine running over once a week anyway.

You have every right to be angry OP, horrible entitled behaviour from them. Like a PP said, make sure estate agents and solicitors are kept informed of your rights if involved in future. Can't believe some of the responses you've had, I'd be raging too. Hope you manage to resolve things.

This is meant kindly, but I don’t think that this is about a car, but is about the relationship and bad feelings about your sister generally. Sorry.

a car is much better than just sat idly otherwise it might not start if it is just left, according to my DH anyway!

@marmoet understand but you need to be having these conversations about keeping each other informed, with your sister.

”that’s part of the estate, if you want the car have you paid Mum and Dad for it?”
”we had plans to BUY that car, not just take it - as DS needs one. I think you should have discussed it with me as we have joint POA and are joint beneficiaries”
”I’ve been doing a lot of cleaning in preparation for the move, what have you been doing to contribute? Oh and I can’t help noticing you have stuck labels on everything - have you not thought to check if I want any of it?”
”going forward can we agree that we JOINTLY decide”

You’ve said yourself, your parents don’t really know what’s going on.

You are a perfect example of why being nice and also passive goes against someone.

I see why you are annoyed but they did give permission so it’s not theft.

Keep a trail of all request in writing so email is probably best.

I understand, op.

She has abused her position as POA by personally benefitting in a way that disadvantages your parents (who could have had the money from the sale of the car). What you were proposing wouldn't have left them out of pocket. Furthermore, she did it without consulting you and knowing that her parents couldn't consent. Given your upbringing and the way you had to clean a house that she had already claimed half the contents of, it's extremely aggravating.