To think my DD17 is overthinking her bf's porn watching

[Thegreatprocrastinator001]

So my DD has been with her bf for 2 years and they are close but also have their own social lives. They're due to go abroad together to stay with family in a week. Today DD is saying she won't go and never wants to speak to him again bc she found out, but checking account histories, that at he looked up porn after she'd told him he shouldn't as it makes her insecure. I get she's annoyed that he lied but she's saying it's like cheating, that she can't trust him and she wants to break up with him. I know porn in general is exploitative with negative messages about sex but I really feel she doesn't appreciate most boys do look up porn - girls too probably - and that it could just be about sexual curiosity.

Yeah, some men will say those things almost because they are overcompensating for how much they hate women. I've met both obnoxious and decent men who describe themselves as feminists.

I don't know. I would have to assume that a man who was clearly told that you're anti-porn but carried on a relationship and carried on concealing a porn habit, and lying about it, doesn't really love you. A woman in that predicament has been deceived massively. I'd hate to think this of a partner, and to an extent have no choice but hope my ability to read character would weed someone so deceptive and dishonest out. But I don't know. I'm certainly not about to go through anyone's search history to find out.

What this doesn't mean, though, is that I need to accept an open porn user. All I can do is lay my cards on the table and hope that I'm not a victim of systematic deception. The possibility that I am being deceived in this way doesn't mean that I should revisit my views on porn.

Amazing. Didn't realise our species only dates back to 1907.

@ColinMyWifeBridgerton Yeah, there you have it. It all comes down to this. What is "really exquisitely nice" for men in a sexual context trumps the safety and dignity of women, every time.

What men want does not trump the safety and dignity of women.

Outside of women who are physically forced and coerced into pornography, there is nothing to force women to do porn. Money is not an excuse, because men in poverty don't have the option of doing porn and they manage to get by.

@OptimismvsRealism "Sorry but the male sex drive is why our species exists. You can't evangelise it out of existence"

And male sex drive=watching porn?

How did we manage to populate the world before 1970?

To clarify, he'd be the one ending the family.

No there isn't the slightest possibility. Won't go into detail why, but there's not.

Come to think of it i'm not sure he could anyway if he wanted to 🤣 he couldn't use his phone for it, he doesnt have a tablet, no laptop, can't use the kids ipad, can't use mine......

@shuggles "Outside of women who are physically forced and coerced into pornography, there is nothing to force women to do porn."

How do you know which porn is created by exploited, coerced women and which isn't?

@ColinMyWifeBridgerton I don't know. I would have to assume that a man who was clearly told that you're anti-porn but carried on a relationship and carried on concealing a porn habit, and lying about it, doesn't really love you. A woman in that predicament has been deceived massively. I'd hate to think this of a partner, and to an extent have no choice but hope my ability to read character would weed someone so deceptive and dishonest out. But I don't know. I'm certainly not about to go through anyone's search history to find out.

As I've said though, there is clearly an incentive for men in relationships with anti-porn women to lie about their porn use.

Why would a man risk a relationship and family, and be stuck being single with no partner at all, over something like porn use? It would be easiest for those men to lie.

@CurlewKate How do you know which porn is created by exploited, coerced women and which isn't?

I don't believe there is any way to guarantee that 100%. Same for the clothes I buy and electronics I use.

This argument is a dead end. You could say the same about cheating on a one night stands. My DP has had opportunity for one night stands (he's spent nights away drinking with friends) and has incentive to lie if he'd done this (I would break up with him). So what? Those things together aren't evidence that he's ever done this. Same with porn. I get to know a man, I get to know his values. Usually I get to know a man as friends first, and then progress to dating and then to relationship. I ask the question about porn very very early on. Perhaps they lie, and never come clean. It's possible, but the possibility isn't evidence that they in fact do it.

(This is probably TMI so stop reading if you don't want this detail about an ex's sex life, but I negotiated with one ex him watching nonviolent animated porn - so no actresses involved at all - fit with both of our values).

@Megifer To clarify, he'd be the one ending the family.

What? So if he viewed porn, he would go to you afterwards and say the relationship is over..?

Come to think of it i'm not sure he could anyway if he wanted to 🤣 he couldn't use his phone for it, he doesnt have a tablet, no laptop, can't use the kids ipad, can't use mine......

He owns a dumb phone?

And there's no possibility then that he's looking at dirty magazines? You know, what all men did before internet access was ubiquitous?

Thank you everyone for posting; it has sparked some really thought-provoking debate. Thanks especially to those who posted without being insulting as I think the thread has demonstrated that there's no clear consensus and everyone's opinion is valid. Those who posted judgemental or snidey comments to me or other posters stilt the discussion but I've been interested to read the views of others and it has helped me find a balanced narrative I think.
Just to clarify, I'd never seek to impose my views upon my daughter who has - to her credit - her own developed sense of morality which we don't have to agree on. I'm proud that she's mature enough to want to discuss this sensitive topic with me - I'm sure there are many things she also keeps private and that's fine. Personally and from reading the views of others I can see various points of view. Regarding the bf we know him well and he is very respectful thoughtful and caring from what we can see. She is too. They have a generally honest and open relationship (until now maybe!) and I'm pretty sure this isn't a case of him being addicted to porn or even using it regularly - she saw he had gone on some site since she had told him she doesn't like it. They are not sexually intimate which is her choice and he is fine with this (rightly so, obv). But I guess this might be one reason she feels insecure. I do worry about young people tracking each other, checking each other's phones etc as they are not learning the tricky area of trust like this and as some have pointed out, we are all entitled to privacy. I also think it's important for young people to be able to talk to parents about sensitive issues because there are so many distorted messages out there, especially on social media, and this may well be one root of insecurity too. Personally I'm glad my DD can raise her worries with me. I have not given her any kind of judgement from my side or imposed any view but I wanted to ensure she was considering other perspectives too before she throws away what until now has been a very important relationship for her. Of course whatever she decides is her choice and I'd never make her feel bad for having principles or making her own decisions (unlike some posters on here!)
On the subject of exploitation I agree that it is an exploitative industry and that it promotes a distorted view of sex but! I really agreed with posters who pointed out the hyprocrasy of some.. Exploitation is everywhere. The gold on your wedding rings comes often from horrific exploitation for example. Clothes too. The meat and dairy industries are exploitative of animals on a global scale and linked to much cruelty. We - especially in industrialised countries - continue to exploit the planet to the detriment of entire populations. And every time you read about youth violence or drug running I can almost guarantee that those kids (that many would villify) are being exploitated in some way or another, and mistreated by the adults around them who in turn were probably also victimised and traumatised as children. Not to detract from their responsibility for their actions, but just to illustrate the point that we turn a blind eye to a lot of exploitation. But these are not popular issues to consider - perhaps because they are too close to home.
My DD hasn't yet made up her mind about what to do and she's feeling miserable but I'm sure she'll work through it, and consider all angles. It's been really helpful to read all the comments and it has left me unsure still but definitely with the benefit of more points of view. V thought provoking. 1..should she be insisting on checking his phone? (I don't think so personally) 2.. Either way he shouldn't have lied and if they've agreed a certain boundary he should stick to it 3.. I agree she needs to work on her self esteem 4... I AM proud of her in so many ways 5... Porn is often exploitative and misrepresentative, perhaps damaging if used excessively (I don't think this is the case here) but it's also popular and here to stay. It's also only one of many areas of exploitation in our world and 6.. I'm quite shocked about the rude tone of some posters. Thank you so much for others who have been respectful in giving their opinions and some even for challenging the rudeness of others. MN should be for respectful advice, opinion and debate, and not a means for some people to be sanctimonious and devaluing of the voices of others. But honestly thank you so much to everyone else for taking the time to give your views... It has definitely been helpful for me

I agree with you OP but ....shes allowed to have her red lines and it doesn't have anything to do with you

@shuggles "I don't believe there is any way to guarantee that 100%. Same for the clothes I buy and electronics I use"

When it comes to clothes and electronics and other consumer goods many of us try very hard to proceed as ethically as possible. And there are some people in the industry trying too. Very little sign of porn users and porn producers moving in that direction. Also. Clothes and food are essential. Porn isn't.

He'd be the one ending things because he'd have done something he knows is unacceptable to me.

No his phone is a smartphone. He just can't use it for anything other than work and calls/whatsapp

Dirty magazines 🤣🤣🤣 good one. I dont even know how I'd feel about those tbh, apart from wondering if I'd been transported back to 1985.

The "well other forms of exploitation exist" arguement is a weird one, too. I once got into this argument with a potential date who was a vegetarian. I found it offensive that he cared more about the exploitation of animals than human women. He found it unbelievable that I would care so much about women's sexual exploitation, but not at all about the life and suffering of fellow creatures. Different forms of exploitation don't balance each other out, but I've got no time for the ones that equate women to animals or the climate.

Men who have a high sex drive can get themselves off without watching porn, you know....

YABVVU. In your place I would be proud of her and be supportive. She is making the right decision FOR HER.

Um.... you don't need porn to wank! 🙄

Is it time to leave the Tate subscribers to it now?

I'd divorce mine. Surely you wouldn't stay with someone who cheated on you?

I know porn in general is exploitative with negative messages about sex but I really feel she doesn't appreciate most boys do look up porn

Wow. What a low bar to set for your daughter!
YABVU.

No we've not had "but the women are paid a lot and treated very well" on the misandry bingo card yet.

This is such a strange and quite frankly depressing look at humanity.

@shuggles A grown up attitude would be accepting that there are people out there who consider porn cheating and find it unacceptable in a relationship. Far better to be single than with a man who gets his rocks off wanking to what is either underage girls or women being raped!

You're not a "cool girl" just because you "like" porn.

I'm saying exploitation exists everywhere and we don't have to pin our flags to just one type. Ideally we would all take a stand against all forms of it. Gold mining for example is linked to all types of exploitation, including the trafficking of girls for sexual exploitation into the jungle for the employees of the mines. I stand by that some people ignore the types of exploitation they are party to whilst being outraged by others.

You need to give yourself a kick in the pants and back up your daughter.

Her so-called boyfriend is trying to break down a serious boundary of hers, and she has stood up to him. Yet you think she's being unreasonable?

Support your daughter. Be proud of her for having a backbone, and the wisdom to realise that she deserves better than a boy who has no respect for either himself or for her.