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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What on earth is my mother doing??

491 replies

Hummingbird75 · 18/07/2024 08:05

For context I am an the adult child of an abusive father, the kind MN would always say LTB.

My father would tell us regularly he hated children, and couldn't stand us and spent most of my childhood hitting and abusing me physically and mentally. Being told he did not love me was far worse than anything he did with his fists as a child. It was devastating. He barely spoke to me when he wasn't losing his temper.

He abused my mother for years in a controlling way but stopped physically assaulting her when he started taking his temper out on us. My mother always said she would leave him, and she had many options to do so, but never did. I grew up desperate for his love and approval initially, to be even noticed enough for him to talk to me. It never happened.

Once I reached adulthood, I realised my 'normal' childhood was not normal at all, and over the years my father and I have been low contact. I remained close to my mother, mainly because he didn't want to be around us anyway beyond keeping my mother happy. My father and I settled on a very superficial relationship that was entirely empty of all meaning.

Once I had dc and he became abusive towards them (making my dc cry calling them fat and being unkind about their appearance when they were young) I went completely no contact with the help and support of MN at the time. To protect my dc. This has been the case for over six years or so. We just keep in contact with my mother which makes things very awkward at times. My mother says she is happy to stay now with him, they have worked out their differences, it suits her to stay with him, at her age.

Last year my father became very, very ill. I supported my mother, but did not contact him. I still choose to keep my children safe, and away from him. It was very hard and sad at the time. My mother said he is getting old we need to 'make up', so I gave him a choice. If my father agreed to be nice to us and not say anything harmful I will restart contact given his age and ill health.
My father refused outright on the phone - he said no and actually laughed at me. He should be able to say what he likes to us, and he will not agree to anything of the sort. I was only asking for him to promise to be kind, nothing more. I was hardly asking for the world.

There was no way I was going to restart contact with him basically telling me he would continue to abuse me/us (as he has always done)

Since then my mother has completely stopped calling. She seemingly will not forgive me for stopping contact and ruining her illusion of a 'happy family'. She has not visited my house in over five years, and refuses to meet me other than from her house (which is very triggering now for me being there, I sometimes have panic attacks when I am outside because I am still so afraid of my father) unless I collect her a few times a year I would never see her. I had a serious illness at the beginning of this year that could have been a terminal diagnosis, she did not even call me then or offer any support whatsoever. I was so hurt by her total indifference. She really did not seem to care.

What she does every day, is send me a WA message saying she loves me to the 'moon and back' and variations of very over the top love messages which feel very insincere and sickly.

I don't FEEL remotely loved by her.

The messages and words feel completely empty to me. I don't know why she sends them, and I have no idea how to respond to her. I asked her to please stop because they were upsetting me, but she carries on anyway. The same message on repeat every single day of undying love, but she never calls or asks how we are in the messages. I am expected to do all of the calling and all of the visiting still regardless of my health. These 'issues' seem irrelevant to her. She sometimes talks about the weather but nothing else, ever. It feels really pointless. I have tried to engage with her properly and she then retreats into silent treatment and this can last for months at a time.

I am so confused.

What is happening here? Why is she sending these messages to me?

It feels like she has cut me off to all intents and purposes, and her daily text hurts me because it seems like she is saying she loves me, but it doesn't feel like she loves or cares about me at all.

I have no idea what I should do about this now.

What am I missing about this situation?

OP posts:
WhingeInTheWillows · 18/07/2024 09:20

She is abusing you. A different way to him but still abuse. If she wanted to leave she could, you’ve given her a way out but she won’t take it. She contacts many other people but not you even though you’ve asked her to. She continues to send messages that you’ve asked her not to. I think she’s punishing you for not having the relationship with your dad that she wants. To me she’s saying they come as a pair. You’ve been strong so far to protect your children and now you need to be strong and protect yourself.

MoveToParis · 18/07/2024 09:22

Hummingbird75 · 18/07/2024 08:52

Yes she has made it clear I can only really be part of her world unless I am willing to accept him 'for what he is'

(Which is a monster, trust me)

Have you ever lost your shit with your Dad? Really went to town on him like he did. Use some of his words back to him? It’s very liberating to get to the point where your abuser knows they have no power over you and that they experience your contempt.

Swimmingteacher21 · 18/07/2024 09:22

My dad, who is difficult, but not remotely like yours, sends similar messages. I think he has no idea that his behaviour is wrong and the sending of the messages helps him to feel like he’s doing his best to maintain the relationship.

I think your mom is trying to make herself feel better by sending those messages. It allows her to feel like she’s somehow in the right. I’m sorry your family is treating you so badly. Honestly, I think cutting off contact for now is best. Maybe your mom will have a change of heart after your dad dies and repairing that relationship may be possible.

Gowlett · 18/07/2024 09:23

It’s your dad. He’s using her to get to you.
She never managed to get away. You have.

Knitgoodwoman · 18/07/2024 09:23

The people pitying the mother obviously don't know what it's like to grow up with abuse.

She DOES have free will, she is making a choice. She acknowledges the hurt caused and is trying to assuage guilt by sending these messages. The messages serve no purpose but to make HER feel better.

If she loved you, and cared, she would have got out, or would work to make amends properly with you.

Mums can be awful people, on mums net people don't seem to always understand that, there's this narrative they're always loving, and it can't possibly be them that's causing harm. People with lovely Mums also seem to give all Mums the benefit of the doubt.

Women can be abused AND also be abusive.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 18/07/2024 09:23

I'm sure your mother loves you but she is a poor parent and she would be happy for you and your children to endure your father's unpleasantness so that her need for family "togetherness" can be met.

Just don't see her if she won't meet you away from home. Personally I would reply to the messages with a "love you too mum" and leave it at that.

wellno · 18/07/2024 09:24

OP, I have been through something similar, and the replies you have received have helped me too. You said you felt you had been sacrificed by your mother in order for her to stay with your father. That is exactly what I felt. That I was sacrificed. And it's such a headfuck.

As mothers we know how we feel about our own children, and it seems impossible to imagine what our mothers are doing to us. It goes against nature, convention - whatever you want to call it. I still can't get my head round my own mother's behaviour and I still feel very hurt.

I suppose I have tried to rationalise it by saying to myself she is weak and therefore I should feel sorry for her. But actually, what I feel is deep, deep disappointment in her. And I hate that feeling, because it makes me feel awful, and as if somehow I am the one who has failed. I am the one being judgmental, etc. It is indeed, a massive head fuck.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/07/2024 09:24

Just to add I also agree with the PP who cautioned against offering her a home

It'll appeal to the idea of "rescuing mum" and building a more loving relationship, but with the level of damage to her and fully justified resentment from you it would almost certainly become thoroughly toxic

As ever that doesn't mean you can't support her to access carers, supported living or whatever, but I'd avoid her actually living with you at all costs

taylorswift1989 · 18/07/2024 09:26

Block her.

The pp saying 'she loves you very much' don't know what they're talking about. She just wants to be seen as a good mother. She wants to be able to say, I don't know what the problem is, I messaged her all the time, I did everything for her. It's just gaslighting.

Well done for protecting your kids, OP. I'd go a step further and protect yourself and your family from your mum, too.

Trickabrick · 18/07/2024 09:26

Surprisedmystified · 18/07/2024 08:25

I think what really came over for me OP is how you stepped in to protect your children from your father's abusive behaviour. But you Mum never did that for you. You did what is natural for a parent to do. But your Mum allowed you to suffer horrendously during your childhood and she is still expecting you to accept and tolerate this awful man.

They are both abusers.

You are obviously a strong person who has survived an awful upbringing and you are being a good and protective mother to your own children.

Personally I think you should cut yourself off totally from both your parents. Put yourself and your children first because I don't think either of them deserve your love or loyalty.

I 100% agree with this

Hummingbird75 · 18/07/2024 09:27

I am agree my mother has been worn down by years of abuse, I agree she can not seem to identify what a good relationship even looks like. I agree she is a victim of domestic violence as well. I believe she has shut down and become avoidant.

However,

My mother is also actively choosing to remain there even now, with all of the choices she has. She also acknowledges openly how harmful he was and still is to my children and I. She knows fully well what he has done, and what he is, and she accepts him as he is. My mother is financially independent and has plenty of support around her, this does not need to be her reality, but she wants it to be. They have been together since they were seventeen, she has no intention of leaving him now and genuinely loves him. The rest it seems, including her own children, is collateral damage to preserve their toxic relationship.

The messages feel manipulative and emotionally coercive - they really do. Unless I get back in line she will withhold her love. This does not feel like a result of my father but a steadfast decision that I must do as she wants (accept him back into my life) She is trying to keep me dangling, refusing to let me go but refusing also to give me an ounce of real love or connection. I do feel this is a choice.

We have stalemate.

If I stop messaging I may lose her altogether, and that might be for the best, but makes me so sad.

If I continue, I feel I am being abused. If someone said to me my messages were really upsetting them, of course I would not continue to send them - I would change them immediately or find another way to communicate. The fact she ignores this outright is really uncomfortable.

OP posts:
OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 18/07/2024 09:28

Is your brother supportive? Does he have a relationship with your father and was he abused as well during his childhood?

If she is still in contact with him he can pass on any important news (but make it clear that is hospitalisation level only).

You have already told her the pointless texts are upsetting you and she continues, there is no point in engaging further - she won’t change. Give her a final warning - ‘mum I love you, but if I get another message like this I will block you. If you change your mind and want a meaningful relationship you can reach out via….’

Then surround yourself with people who do love and value you.

Floppyelf · 18/07/2024 09:30

WhingeInTheWillows · 18/07/2024 09:20

She is abusing you. A different way to him but still abuse. If she wanted to leave she could, you’ve given her a way out but she won’t take it. She contacts many other people but not you even though you’ve asked her to. She continues to send messages that you’ve asked her not to. I think she’s punishing you for not having the relationship with your dad that she wants. To me she’s saying they come as a pair. You’ve been strong so far to protect your children and now you need to be strong and protect yourself.

Willows has got it right in one.

DreadPirateRobots · 18/07/2024 09:30

This is a common dynamic when there is one violent, abusive parent and one parent who enabled the abuse. And make no mistake: that's what she did. Beyond not leaving the situation, she made no attempt to shield you or your DC from his abuse. She enabled him.

I'm prepared to bet any sum of money you care to name that when you bring up specific acts of his abuse, you get some combination of: 1) I don't remember that, 2) it wasn't that bad, 3) you weren't perfect either, 4) you never see his good side, 5) he did that because he loved you. Simply put, she cannot cope with the reality that she has comprehensively failed you as a parent. It's not compatible with her own belief that she is a Good Person and a Good Parent. And as she can't resolve the cognitive dissonance of her self-image is as a Good Parent and the fact that your father abused you and she enabled it, she resolves them by minimising and deleting the abuse from her mind and by performing her idea of Good Parent. Since you won't let her perform Good Parent in Intact Family in person, she performs it through these texts, despite the fact that you have actively told her they upset you. They aren't for you. They're to prop up her self-image.

She was abused, yes. But she abused you too. She is weak and she let you down. There is nothing you can do other than take care of yourself as best you can. If you have never had any therapy around your relationship with both parents, it might be very beneficial for you, and would give you a supportive environment to discuss how you want to handle your relationship with her going forward, and whether you want one at all.

MillyNair · 18/07/2024 09:33

Hummingbird75 · 18/07/2024 08:09

Thank you, yes I am sure he is still controlling her, but she could call me if she wanted to, she is choosing not to.

Your father's control has damaged her and I sympathise with her in that respect, but even with that in mind she is still responsible for her actions. She allowed your father to abuse you all those years ago. When he transferred his abuse from her onto you she allowed it.

The messages she sends you are for her, not you. They make her feel less of a cunt (sorry to use this word in relation to your mum, but I can't think of any other word right now) but her behaviour is fucking appalling. She doesn't know how to love anymore (if she ever did). Love is action, not words.

If you are anything like me (and countless other adults who were abused as kids) you may think this is all your fault. It isn't. Save your decency and loving kindness (which you miraculously have in spades) for yourself and your children.

Smineusername · 18/07/2024 09:33

She's abusive too and your role is to be the family scapegoat. You were given this role because they both sense you are strong - stronger than them - so you can take it. Neither of them are capable of loving you in the way that you needed and deserved and this is not your fault. You are re-traumatising yourself by constantly seeking what they have consistently demonstrated they are emotionally incapable of providing. You are protecting your children but it's time someone - you - protected you

biscuitsnow · 18/07/2024 09:34

Knitgoodwoman · 18/07/2024 09:23

The people pitying the mother obviously don't know what it's like to grow up with abuse.

She DOES have free will, she is making a choice. She acknowledges the hurt caused and is trying to assuage guilt by sending these messages. The messages serve no purpose but to make HER feel better.

If she loved you, and cared, she would have got out, or would work to make amends properly with you.

Mums can be awful people, on mums net people don't seem to always understand that, there's this narrative they're always loving, and it can't possibly be them that's causing harm. People with lovely Mums also seem to give all Mums the benefit of the doubt.

Women can be abused AND also be abusive.

Well said. Not all mothers are caring and not all mothers are good.

Someone can be a narc or a horrible person and STILL be a victim of abuse. It's not as if only "nice" or saintly people can be victims of abuse- ANYONE can be a victim of abuse, regardless of their character and whether they are at their core a decent person or not.

I know people have a hard time recognising that but it's the truth. Your mother is definitely a victim but that doesnt mean she is a good mother or a decent person by any means.

Hummingbird75 · 18/07/2024 09:34

OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 18/07/2024 09:28

Is your brother supportive? Does he have a relationship with your father and was he abused as well during his childhood?

If she is still in contact with him he can pass on any important news (but make it clear that is hospitalisation level only).

You have already told her the pointless texts are upsetting you and she continues, there is no point in engaging further - she won’t change. Give her a final warning - ‘mum I love you, but if I get another message like this I will block you. If you change your mind and want a meaningful relationship you can reach out via….’

Then surround yourself with people who do love and value you.

My brother and I have no relationship at all, because he says I should grin and bear my father for my mother's sake. He said the beatings and abuse were normal and I must 'get over it' for my mother's sake and my kids need to toughen up and learn to put up with it.

He is basically saying that we must continue the cycle of abuse, if I am to ever be included within the family.

He was always, and still is, golden bollocks as I call him. And can do no wrong. My mother protected him from most of my Dad's abuse and rerouted it towards me, I took a lot of hits for him in our younger days and we were solid right up until the point I decided in my early 30s with my own children to consider that enough is enough.

We are totally no contact now.

OP posts:
Elliania · 18/07/2024 09:35

She's trying to save face and appease her conscience. "Well it's not MY fault she won't contact me. Look, I tell her I love her ALL the time and she refuses to contact me or her father. It's nothing to do with the fact I'm insisting she and her children voluntarily sign up for more abuse, no it's all HER FAULT."

ChristmasFluff · 18/07/2024 09:37

The one thing we can be sure of is that she is not doing this for the sake of the OP, as the only show of love she an manage, because if this were the case she would respect the request to not do it and to communicate in a meaningful manner.

If you have to, you can send a genuine text from the toilet as easily as a self-serving one. But I don't believe this is the real truth.

She chose this abusive man over her children time and time and time again - that takes a certain type of person. The type of person who would then try to manipulate her abused daughter into having contact with her abuser because they 'come as a package'. To assuage her own guilt and keep up appearances.

I am less optimistic about her behaviour after your father's death than others on the thread, OP, as when you stand by an abuser you are condoning the abuse at best and are complicit at worst. I do believe she is also abusive - and your update about the golden child brother confirms that.

Protecting my child was the only reason I left my abuser - and that was to protect him from witnessing the abuse. It took a long time to overcome the guilt of allowing him to see it even once (I'd lied to myself he didn't know what was happening up to that point). A mother who doesn't protect her child from actual abuse? That's no mother at all.

Love is actions, not words.

RedEdit · 18/07/2024 09:38

You sound like a brilliant mum. It takes a huge amount of strength to do what you are doing but you are giving your children what you never had, a mum who protects them from harm.

Archive the chat with your mum and set yourself a time once a week where you check the messages just in case there has been any change.

I think your mum will keep sending them because it is her daily lie that she is a good mum. I'm sorry but she isn't going to change. She has let you down badly and the time to leave was when you were being abused as a child. She isn't going to leave now.

Know that you are putting your children first and limiting your contact with her is helping you be the best mum you can. The guilt will always be there I'm afraid to say but stay strong.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/07/2024 09:39

Unless I get back in line she will withhold her love. This does not feel like a result of my father but a steadfast decision that I must do as she wants

Once again you're quite right, though I suspect she's clinging onto this form of control because she's so damaged that it's the only type of influence she has

There's a difference between "pitying" her and understanding how she reached this position, but none of this negates the point that you need to prioritise yourself now - and as said, that may involve reaching an acceptance that itt's simply too late for her to become the mum you deserved

It's desperately sad of course, but then family issues sometimes are, and all we can do is attempt to find a way forward which brings us as much peace as possible

ReluctantSwimMum · 18/07/2024 09:41

I think you might benefit from psychotherapy OP, if you feel able.

My gut feeling is why do you want to see your mother? You seem to think it's a given. It's not compulsory. She has behaved appallingly.

You sound like a great mum - well done for separating from your father and not allowing your children to be abused by him.

DreadPirateRobots · 18/07/2024 09:41

OP, I just want to say: well done. I know it's been awful, painfully hard, that you still struggle with it, but your strength has been incredible. You have fought for yourself. You have fought for your DC. You have recognised that both of your parents abused and failed you, you haven't internalised their failure. You have protected yourself from your golden-child collusive brother. You are amazing.

taylorswift1989 · 18/07/2024 09:42

If I stop messaging I may lose her altogether, and that might be for the best, but makes me so sad.

If I continue, I feel I am being abused.

Yep. It's really sad. But you are the only one who can stop the cycle of abuse. If you want it to end, you have to be the one to end it. Which means ending contact with your mum.

It's not fair and it's so sad, and you deserve so much better. But it is what it is.