What on earth is my mother doing??

[Hummingbird75]

For context I am an the adult child of an abusive father, the kind MN would always say LTB.

My father would tell us regularly he hated children, and couldn't stand us and spent most of my childhood hitting and abusing me physically and mentally. Being told he did not love me was far worse than anything he did with his fists as a child. It was devastating. He barely spoke to me when he wasn't losing his temper.

He abused my mother for years in a controlling way but stopped physically assaulting her when he started taking his temper out on us. My mother always said she would leave him, and she had many options to do so, but never did. I grew up desperate for his love and approval initially, to be even noticed enough for him to talk to me. It never happened.

Once I reached adulthood, I realised my 'normal' childhood was not normal at all, and over the years my father and I have been low contact. I remained close to my mother, mainly because he didn't want to be around us anyway beyond keeping my mother happy. My father and I settled on a very superficial relationship that was entirely empty of all meaning.

Once I had dc and he became abusive towards them (making my dc cry calling them fat and being unkind about their appearance when they were young) I went completely no contact with the help and support of MN at the time. To protect my dc. This has been the case for over six years or so. We just keep in contact with my mother which makes things very awkward at times. My mother says she is happy to stay now with him, they have worked out their differences, it suits her to stay with him, at her age.

Last year my father became very, very ill. I supported my mother, but did not contact him. I still choose to keep my children safe, and away from him. It was very hard and sad at the time. My mother said he is getting old we need to 'make up', so I gave him a choice. If my father agreed to be nice to us and not say anything harmful I will restart contact given his age and ill health.
My father refused outright on the phone - he said no and actually laughed at me. He should be able to say what he likes to us, and he will not agree to anything of the sort. I was only asking for him to promise to be kind, nothing more. I was hardly asking for the world.

There was no way I was going to restart contact with him basically telling me he would continue to abuse me/us (as he has always done)

Since then my mother has completely stopped calling. She seemingly will not forgive me for stopping contact and ruining her illusion of a 'happy family'. She has not visited my house in over five years, and refuses to meet me other than from her house (which is very triggering now for me being there, I sometimes have panic attacks when I am outside because I am still so afraid of my father) unless I collect her a few times a year I would never see her. I had a serious illness at the beginning of this year that could have been a terminal diagnosis, she did not even call me then or offer any support whatsoever. I was so hurt by her total indifference. She really did not seem to care.

What she does every day, is send me a WA message saying she loves me to the 'moon and back' and variations of very over the top love messages which feel very insincere and sickly.

I don't FEEL remotely loved by her.

The messages and words feel completely empty to me. I don't know why she sends them, and I have no idea how to respond to her. I asked her to please stop because they were upsetting me, but she carries on anyway. The same message on repeat every single day of undying love, but she never calls or asks how we are in the messages. I am expected to do all of the calling and all of the visiting still regardless of my health. These 'issues' seem irrelevant to her. She sometimes talks about the weather but nothing else, ever. It feels really pointless. I have tried to engage with her properly and she then retreats into silent treatment and this can last for months at a time.

I am so confused.

What is happening here? Why is she sending these messages to me?

It feels like she has cut me off to all intents and purposes, and her daily text hurts me because it seems like she is saying she loves me, but it doesn't feel like she loves or cares about me at all.

I have no idea what I should do about this now.

What am I missing about this situation?

Watch this OP:

Its about how we will never understand narcs- the channel is about dating but its equally applicable to parent relationships and it describes SO much of what you have detailed in this thread already

She allowed her children to be abused and now she expects you to do the same, maybe to lessen her guilt? It's incredibly hard to escape an abusive relationship but it's not impossible and I do believe that we, the abused, must take some responsibility for our choice to stay, especially when it damages our children.
You have only partially escaped so far. Keep yourself and your children safe from both of your parents.

Yes that is absolutely right, her list reflects her behaviour towards me perfectly to a tee. I have only ever treated her with respect, and dare I say it exasperation sometimes when she doesn't listen to me (re the love bombing messages) but I don't see her in a negative light, and mostly I have felt very protective of her and her feelings.

I am feeling calmer at the outlook now. I have planned things I know are likely to hurt, like her birthday and Christmas, so I won't feel too bad.

I know the most likely moment will be when one of them suddenly becomes 'seriously ill' and all this will be is a ruse to bring me back in line. I have blocked her now, I have actually deleted her number so I will never feel tempted to message in a moment of weakness. I won't be going to them whatever happens.

It really is for the best for her and for me.

She won't need to feel her loyalties are in any way compromised any longer, she can now be true to their cause unhindered. She no longer needs to worry about me asking when she will visit or can I please have a phone call occasionally. Or compromising her by coming to see her. She is free to join my brother and father fully and be true to herself for once. She can say honestly to my father now that does not have a relationship with us any longer, I am sure it will make her life easier.

If I am all of those things on her list, then she no longer needs to put up with that, she is free of it all.

For me the benefits are even bigger. I won't have to feel sad every day when I get an emotionally manipulative message. I won't have to feel triggered. I don't need to try and make the relationship work and all of the heart ache that caused when the effort was never returned. I will have more energy for the relationships that are fully investing in me, and those that truly love me. I don't need to see another week, another month and then six months pass and she still hasn't as much picked up the phone. I no longer need to call her, and feel her quietly enjoying the fact I care more than she does. I will no longer lie in a hospital bed and wonder why she has decided this is the moment 'she can't cope' with me being ill and gives me the silent treatment for weeks in end, because she can't deal with 'stress' of any kind. Or feel that horrible lonely feeling of thinking she will text me and ask me how I am, and she never does, no matter how seriously ill I have been.

I don't need to live in fear of my father hurting me, or coming out of his house in a rage when I am collecting her from the road. I don't have to have panic attacks by the side of the road, or be physically sick at the thought of seeing their house or running into him any longer. I don't need to feel the dread of the visits for a full week at least before they happen. No more strained conversations about how painful this all is.

My kids don't like her, my dd had said she was horribly manipulative over my father's illness when he was in hospital (my mother made it all about her, full theatrics in front of the kids for days on end). I can breathe and enjoy my life without being dragged down by the past, I can cut it all away like a cancer. I never ever have to look at my father's rage in his eyes ever again, and see his yellow crocodile like teeth glinting in a smile that tells me he is ready for fun and I or my kids will soon be in deep trouble, and I go into a stress response trying to anticipate what he might do next.
I can stop looking over my shoulder, or panicking when the phone rings. I never have to go to the funeral and try and try to think of something nice to say about a man who abused me relentlessly, and has never felt any remorse. I can't think of a single endearing thing to say about him.

I don't need to have a spotless car, a perfect dress, a slim frame and a perfectly made up face so he doesn't criticise me openly to my face, and insult me and tell the world I am letting myself go, I can be myself as I am with other people. Dirty car and all. I stop being my mother's gossip fodder to her sister and her one friend. She will no longer dig around for terrible health news so she can have the enjoyment of picking over my pain at 7pm when she settles down for her evening call. She will no longer know the good news, but especially I am no longer serving her up supply that can be converted into the hard currency of attention for her. It stops today. I have always felt my life was simply a way for her to garner attention from others, she never actually cared if I was going to live, if I was suffering and in pain. I can take down the photo of her at my wedding in a full bright red sequinned wedding dress she ordered for MY wedding. I can still remember the look of abject horror on my lovely mother in law's face when she saw it. She never said one word to her credit. To my credit, I expected nothing less. Especially as the night before she managed to ruin my confidence by telling me 'I had put on a hell of a lot of weight' I honestly don't know how I have put up with this for so long.

There is another way to live. I know there is. A lighter, contented and happy future that is no longer dragged down by the misery that they inflict on me. I feel a most odd sensation of not even wanting to look at my phone any longer. Like that compulsion to check has just gone altogether. Nothing on my phone interests me any longer, I have my kids at home and thats all that matters, and my lovely dh who has spent all day looking after and out for me because he could see how quiet I was, and he knows why and never presses me.

Thank you to all of the brave, intelligent and enlightened souls on here spreading your light, support and care. I really needed to get this off my chest. To be accountable to myself, and to come back when I wobble and struggle, and desperately wish for a mama. This list will help me see I am doing the right thing, for the right reasons.

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

@Hummingbird75

this thread has been like watching a butterfly emerge from its chrysalis.

you are beautiful op. I’m so saddened by your posts while at exactly the same time being so gladdened to see the massive transformation in your self which I can see will lighten your life hugely.

as one childhood trauma survivor to another bloody well done and I wish you all the calmness and strength I can possibly muster for you.

I know more than most it’s all so insidious and ingrained into the very fibres of your being and complicated that I can’t just wish you the best because it’s never going to be as easy as that even when you’re not exposed anymore you live with the consequences but bugger it I am anyway! You deserve the best and more!!!!

@Hummingbird75 once the wool has been lifted from our eyes, we see them as they truly are, we can't then unsee it. It's hurtful and shocking but better to face the truth and move forward than stay within the family lie.
It gets easier, you cannot heal from a toxic family while you remain in it. It's takes time for the anger, hurt and resentment to fade but it does, for me I just became completely indifferent, I no longer thought about them, the internal dialogue went. It took a while to embrace the calmness after the chaos. My only regret was I didn't go NC 40 years ago.

You are well on your way to that blessed place of acceptance OP.
You are going to be so happily surprised at just how peaceful it is.
Mind yourself.

The total death of hope is the hardest thing waking up this morning and realising I will never have a family christmas at my mother's grotto ever again (not that it was fun because my father would ruin every single one)

I will never hold my mother in my arms when she has had a bad day, or link arms and go shopping together, or sit over a coffee and chat. I will never see her appear at my door when I have had awful news from the doctor, and she comes in and gives me the kind of hug I imagine only a mum can give and helps me pull myself together as I have done many times. I will never feel the closeness, the warmness of her presence and strength.

I will never see my dds spinning around the kitchen with my mother, or sewing and baking at the kitchen table. I will never sit in a spa and have our toe nails painted or something like that. Or travel to a different country and enjoy a holiday. We will never visit my grandmother's graves together and plant rose bushes and honour the wonderful women they were.

We will never go to the beach again and collect pebbles and drink wine by the sea. We will never gather all of the womenfolk in my family and talk about our lives. We will never dance together or sing together again, or hold hands when we are in a Christmas carol service because it is impossibly tender. When I lose someone or something precious there will be no loving mother to offer comfort or wisdom, or tuck me into bed when I am too tired to manage the day. She will never see my amazing achievements, or my beautiful smart girls as they grow in to women. Or my little dogs. Or the pride of my flowering gardens that have taken years in the making. Especially my climbing roses with the petals scattering everywhere. No more chats in the car listening to the birds outside on a cold winter's day. We won't be walking in the woods again, nor sitting in the summer enjoying a picnic, watching the ducks on the lake. We won't visit any more castles, or the garden centres at Christmas. We won't be making christmas cards again, or knit at the table. Or sit by the fire with a glass of wine and the radio on. I won't get to tuck her into my guest bed knowing she looks so soft and comfortable, and loved. We won't ever have this again.

It is all lost. It will never happen, any of it.

These were all the things I hoped for, and more. Some of them I was able to create myself with her and are real memories, but she was never really present, she often felt distant and I felt alone even as she stood there, she would be fumbling with her phone as one text after another would arrive from my father, brother and aunt and she would have to reply painstakingly to each one as I sat there waiting. Even when she was with me, she was not actually with me. Distracted by her phone, smoking or talking about something else usually my brother, rather than just enjoying the moment we were sharing. Even in the rare moments she would not be doing those things and would start to enjoy herself, I can see now it might have been mirroring because these were my dreams, not hers.

She avoided any kind of relationship from the beginning, and always found something else to do. Chronically avoidant, she would find almost anything else to do to avoid any intimacy, tenderness or connection. There was always something to put away, a message to answer or a call that was pressing as 'your dad will worry'.

How it hurts to know all hope is gone now. I have to find a way to let go.

The death of hope is the hardest thing, and there is no getting away from it - it has to be faced.

But you do have hope - do these things with your own dc @Hummingbird75 and build good memories with them. Grieve for the past but reframe and look forward with hope and focus on the future. Therein may lie peace and happy times.

Yes - and that is a total blessing. I can spend more time enjoying these things with my own children now I am not hankering after my own mother. I have more time now, as they enjoy spending time with me.

I realised today, and I am rather ashamed to admit that I have wasted too much time already focused on the situation with my mother 😔

She's love bombing you to keep you under her control and to keep you feeling guilty.

I don't know why you have kept these people in your life, I think you are trying to grasp at and hold onto something that is never going to happen. They are abusive parents and you need to block them both and walk away.

Stop enabling them to continue treating you like shit. You don't need them. Want them? Yes. Need them? No.

@Hummingbird75

Oh sweetheart you feel this way because we are genetically programmed to feel that way. Don’t feel bad that you can’t shake your need for her or that you are grieving the what could and should have been because it’s coming from a place that you can’t control. It’s primal and it’s in our dna code. We can learn to live without it but it hurts on a level that can’t really be explained to someone who hasn’t experienced it.

you just need to work hard on how you feel that stuff whilst also being able to live your life and without it overwhelming everything else. Time will help you with that but ultimately it also takes conscious effort and work to learn skills to do that too.

for my mum I have tried to give a safe place of comfort with no judgment or guilt for those feelings because the little girl needs heard and actually deserves to be heard finally! but I’ve put boundaries in place so they can’t (very often) spill over and infect the healthy life I worked so hard to build. I allow myself a bit of time to feel something if it comes up but then I put it down gently like a long ago grief rather than an acute new death if any of that makes sense.
im not sure how that will work when she actually dies but for now it’s my process! 😳

You have been under-reacting for YEARS - time for a change. She’s a horror, just as much as your father.

@mustwedothis Please read ALL of OP's posts. She has come such a long way since her initial post.

@Hummingbird75 reading all of your posts I'm glad you've been able to work through all of these complex thoughts and decide what's best for you.

As an aside, can I just say... Your writing is so inspirational, you are clear and clever, and evoke such empathy. If you ever feel able to, I think you could write a book to help others in your situation.

@Hummingbird75 A small thing from the many wonderful words you've written, but this:

'If I am all of those things on her list, then she no longer needs to put up with that, she is free of it all.'

resonated with me because I felt that self-justification, which I think is born of hurt, guilt & anger, only in my situation it came out as:

You always chose your husband above me, you always told me he came first (& I came nowhere) & you loved him & could never leave him & he was all you ever wanted - well, I'm leaving you in peace so now you've got him, it's what you always wanted, just the two of you - enjoy!

There's a feeling of revenge about it, of schadenfreude maybe, because I knew she wouldn't be happy with him. She'd lost her human shield, she had nothing to offer up to him & hide behind. She would get him full force now. But that's the choice she made.

The best revenge is to live well, so they say, & the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. But right here, right now, you need that moment of turning things back on her in your own mind, & I celebrate the fact that you've reached this stage of your journey.

@Hummingbird75 - be gentle with yourself over the next little while because what is happening now is that you are going to be going through the stages of grief. Not because someone has died but more that something has died. That is the hope that your mother and family could at the very very least be polite and kind towards you and your posts from last night have shown that they can't and will never be that way, so you are going to be grieving the loss of that hope, the hope for the life that you thought you might have.

Don't give up hope though as there is still many many different options of a life you may have for the future - think of this like a fork or junction in the road, you have a map for what is behind you and you can decide which way you want to go now but you have to leave the u-haul that you've been bringing with you at this point. You can go ahead and it's all an adventure and you get to spend it with the people that love and appreciate you now.

Sending you lots of positive vibes for the journey ahead.

I'm sorry for you @Hummingbird75 but not surprised. Sadly your mother's behaviour is all too familiar to me, and I think the therapist who suggested she was a covert narc was spot on. Now you have caused her a major narcissistic wound (I did the same) and the real her has appeared - just for your pleasure though, to others she will play the victim, as she has done to you. For most of my life I had sympathy for the insensitive bitch that was my adoptive "mother", I now know I was literally programmed to think that way and deny the actual truth that was in front of me, that her "love" was conditional on me behaving exactly, completely and utterly as she had decided, and I should ignore her abusive behaviour because I must have deserved it. My self esteem was non existent.

I'm not sure if I mentioned the Stately Homes thread in my previous post, but please do have a look. I have found lots of very useful resources and they are listed there and in this link "Resources for people affected by narcissism":
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQZzvS5II81azTybktz1ThTjVMdrWlaIvKwLxIfJ5XSeZw7f50zd7FqYN92IlTXyK-J9Z14ATxfU6MX/pub

You have a hard, up and down, road ahead of you in coming to terms with this. Do be kind to yourself, you didn't cause this awful situation. You were an innocent child being abused. There is no excuse for that. You may learn what damage from her childhood caused your mother to act that way, but it still is not excusable. You will find other people telling you she did her best. Do not listen to them. They did not live your life and they don't get to excuse what was done to you. I wish you the very best in dealing with this and well done on opening your eyes to what has been happening.

I have nothing much to add here except to say I am in awe of your growth in such a short space of time. The insights you have achieved are simply amazing: well done, and keep going. As others have said, you have a long road ahead of you, but I have no doubt you will pass through the coming trials a stronger, wiser person in every way. Grieve as much as you need to, it is a profound rupture that you are going through. Be gentle and compassionate with yourself, it won’t be linear or predictable but you have already gone through fire, you are far stronger than you can possibly realise.
There is a 12 Step organisation which is specifically for Adult Children of dysfunctional families, which is another resource that may be of use.

And never forget how utterly brave you have been just coming on this forum of total strangers to reach out for help. I have been saddened reading about your trials at the hands of your biological family, but heartened beyond belief at the outpouring of support and empathy. It has restored my faith in humanity. Sending you many gentle hugs and positive thoughts for your future.

Wow. There's an Irish thing , where you say
I hope you die roaring.
Not very Mumsnet but
Horrid person

What I can’t understand is why you have been their doormat for so long! Find your sense of worth and ditch them for ever!

The awful things she has said about me, I know they are completely untrue and she is projecting and lashing out because she is furious with me for calling my father out again, and stepping out of my forced silence. I have realised that I have been muzzled by her for a very long time. I didn't even get around to challenging her on her own behaviour and abuse, but that is okay, I can see it now and that is all that matters.

I realised I may have moved physically away from her, but mentally and emotionally I was still caught in the web of domestic abuse. Without being too outing it is my line of work, and it shocked me that I could not see my own emotional 'Stockholm Syndrome' as I attribute it to abusive partners and not parents. I assumed it was the natural love and loyalty I have felt for my mother, and not conditioned and prewired responses.

I have been up and down and occasionally tearful the last few days, as the whole thing has come into sharp focus and I can see just how badly I have been treated. I feel very sad for the child I was. Deeply sad.

I then swing from doubting myself and saying it was not that bad (denial), and how evil am I to turn my back on my elderly mother (distortion) to something approaching rage that this has happened to me for nearly FIVE decades and I have been totally powerless and unaware. I feel a tiny bit afraid of her now, as I don't know who she is anymore. I had this idea of who I thought she was, the mother I loved, and she is not that person at all and it is disconcerting.

So you can say the wool from my eyes has been truly ripped off, and it is an exposing and shocking feeling to be confronted with who she is actually is, and the power and control she has had over me for so long.

There is a big shift taking place, my old mindset would have been in so much emotional pain at being cut off again from her, and wondering how I can fix things with her and ease the wounds. This time I have no intention or desire to run back to her as I would have done in the past, there is a cold indifference setting in. I have never felt indifferent before. I have cancelled as much as I can this week whilst I am dealing with this. I obviously still need to work, but everything else has to take a back seat.

I never had any self worth to find, it was taken away a long time ago. I am just building up my self worth and self esteem now brick by brick from nothing.

It may sound incredulous to someone that has had normal parents and a normal life - why can't you just leave? Well to leave and stop being a 'doormat', you need to be aware of it in the first place!

With parents that systemically abuse you from birth, it is completely normalised. For me it was normal for my father to hit us and lose his temper. It was normal for my mother to gas light me and tell me he loves me anyway, even as he hissed that he hated us. It was normal for my mother to make us feel sorry for her, and to tell us to keep quiet for her, and this is all so hard for her. I learnt to prioritise her feelings over my own, to meet her needs and suppress my own. To look after her, as I didn't matter. The 'doormat' isn't a lifestyle choice I have made, it was forced on me when I was tiny and unable to choose. It is like a life time of grooming if you can imagine it?

I was conditioned and abused, and not given the choice - no child ever gets to choose their treatment or how much love they are given by a parent - one has to just hope the parents are decent and do the right thing. In my case they were not.

In the same way that a woman can't leave her abusive husband as she can't imagine life outside of the abuse, so this happens with parents and their children as well. The only difference being that hopefully the woman will have had some idea of what love felt like before her relationship, and possibly a supportive family too - well I didn't have this to lean on. I have no experience of unconditional love. So 'ditching them' is not as easy as you make it sound. Trust me.

OP, Its been 50 years of suffering.
Respect to you for surviving, & now moving on to indifference.

There will be flying monkeys, be ready.

I'm glad the women on MN have, (for the most part) helped you wade through your miserable broken family morass.

Close that door & enjoy the future

You explain this so well and so eloquently. I think the question itself completely lacked empathy and understanding, so bravo you.