is this unforgivable in a friendship?

[pam72]

I was in a close friendship with a group of other mums. over lockdown, I became close to the DH of one of my good friends. I'm a single mum - which can often be a tricky card to play...While nothing physical ever happened, we both admitted we had feelings for each other, but also agreed it would be catastrophic for so many people if anything further developed. Nothing ever did, but when he's drunk he sends me very full on messages about how life is cruel and how much he wishes we could be together. I don't fully shut them down - to do this I think I'd have to say I would tell his wife? but I don't encourage them (I'll tell him to go to bed / stop messaging) its incredibly hard to ignore and I think about him constantly. I also feel it's very unfair of him to send these messages. he seems totally able to compartmentalize and act like nothing weird has happened. but to me, it's all consuming, It honestly feels like a drug. Nothing happened, I distanced myself, from him and his wife's friendship, I moved house, I left my job. I questioned everything about myself, unable to believe the feelings I had for him didn't just trump, but floored any feelings of guilt I had for his wife. Never ever ever thought I'd be this person. Totally thought I was both stronger and way more loyal to the sisterhood.

Recently his wife has blocked me on every social platform, removed me from group chats etc and I feel (but don't know) that she is trying to get our mutual friends to distance themselves from me. If she knew the truth I totally get why this would happen, but if she knew the truth, I also don't think she'd stay with her husband, but she's still with him. I understand we can no longer be friends, I don't want to be, but am I being unreasonable to feel angry that the husband, who 1000000% drove every single interaction, is coming out smelling of roses, while I'm the scarlet women who tries to steal my friends' husband? I don't know what he told her, but it's clearly something that isn't true (I won't be in contact with him as I feel this just looks like I'm causing trouble)

NB - appreciate this is a hugely triggering post for lots of people, and I fully expect to get torrents of abuse - but I'm being truthful about a situation and a position that I don't think gets shared too much - but probably is more common that people realize.

What was she realistically expecting from the thread - that we’d all give her a virtual hug and maybe club together for a bouquet? It surely isn’t news to her that women don’t like women who go after their friends’ husbands, or even don’t shut down husbands who do all the running. If OP was looking for sympathy and an outpouring of sisterly support, she’s even more naïve than her post suggests.

You're talking about the man “remaining part of the group” as if everyone has rallied around him and told him he’s done nothing wrong; that it’s all down to the OP. I highly doubt that. But the others in the group aren’t choosing between him and the OP - they’re choosing between the OP and their other friend, the wronged wife. As @Growlybear83 pointed out, she’s the one innocent party here. Her friends might think she’s mad to give her husband another chance, but if that’s the decision she’s made, they can’t ostracise him if they want to stay friends with and support her. Whether it’s “fair” or not doesn’t really come into it; in practical terms, OP’s former friendship group is stuck with her the husband, like it or not. Her, they can drop.

Why are so many (and OP) so convinced that he must have lied to his wife and blamed everything on her and 'got away with it'?

They are married! they might have children, a home together, a life. Of course her first step is going to be to get rid of the OW, it takes seconds and is the easiest first step.

I highly doubt OP is going to be kept in the loop about what this poor woman is going to do in regards to the part her husband played in all this and neither should she!

There was a cartoon that was in one of the women's magazines a long time ago. It was a man and a woman having a conversation, he said "My wife doesn't understand me", she replied "But I do". Implying that the woman knew full well he was trying it on and the 'doesn't understand me' was a line being used to see if she was up for fooling around while he was still married.

The trouble is you fell for it. Most women see these men coming a mile off and steer well clear.

You were never going to come out on top OP however sleazy this man was / is.

I think saying they will break up in a few years when she learns she can’t get past it is a bit of a reach. Sure it was messages and flirting, but there was nothing physical, many have got over much worse and led a perfectly happy relationship for ever more.

she also does know the extent of it, which to be fair wasn’t that much in reality just lots of teenage angsty messages.

id bin my husband off for having sex with someone, or cam girls or something, but to be honest I’d prob get over this. I’d bin the friend immediately though. And get her kicked out the social group. I’d not want her round me.

and if I was one of the wife’s friends I’d bin the op off, not want her round me, and let the wife decide what to do about her daft husband.

Not here to bash you but you and him have totally overstepped the mark and my heart goes out to his wife for a double betrayal which will stick with her forever. Get out of your pity party and never do this again.

You sound very lonely and confused over this, and rather vulnerable. I hope you're ok.

I'm afraid it is unforgivable in a friendship, as you allowed yourself to become emotionally involved with her husband. Of course he is to blame too, but most women would firmly reject his attentions and block him on social media/phone, ensure they were never alone with him. Then inform his wife if he persisted.

Sounds like you're infatuated with him, but the line has been crossed and it's unlikely the wife or other women in that social group will trust you again.
Perhaps she saw the messages and he lied and claimed you were pursuing him, or he confessed and repented and she forgave him because he's her partner and loves him.

It's the one thing most women won't forgive and forget, as it's seen as deceitful and antifeminist, no matter how lonely or in love you were.

I would find new friends and forget these.

As a single woman I get hit on by chancers and I close it right then, hence my female friends are still my friends. I would also not want to be friends with someone who hit on other people’s partners, so good on the friendship group for cutting out the OP.
Most people don’t split over this type of thing -at least not the first time, because it takes a lot to dismantle a whole life and children’s security.

You weren't a good friend to her, things went for too far.

OP won’t be back.

I hope after reading all the comments she realises that not only was the poor women’s husband in the wrong, she was in the wrong too!

It’s not that complex. As soon as he started to texting you suggestively you should have blocked him and had stern words with him on how inappropriate his behaviour was/is.

Hopefully a lesson learnt…. Don’t f up the next set of mum friends by developing an attraction to one of their husbands.

When you make friends with a mum friend, you're supposed to have their back, and them yours, because what your shared experience is can be isolating and overwhelming. Marriages hitting a hard time is part of that time, usually not because the women you chose to be part of your village couldn't maintain proper boundaries.

So yes, unforgivable for a friend to do.

For future reference, don't swap numbers with friends partners. Messages that need passing on go through your friends.

You're that single mum! The one everyone talks about at the school gate, the one who actively gets close to "friends" husbands, how in hell did you think it would end? You're not a girls girls, you not doing anything is doing something, you didn't tell your "friend" you didn't block him, you kept the line open just incase they split and you could swoop in and have him. As the friend you bet I'm going to blast you as the homewrecker you are and yes I'd be leaving his ass too. You're going to be a social pariah in that group, no one is going to trust you let alone with their husbands. You dug yourself this whole. You don't know the meaning of friendship! Are you a single mum because you've slept with other "friends" partners ?

"Nothing happened..."

"We both admitted we had feelings for each other"

Those two phrases are massively at odds with each other don't you think?

It sounds like she knows exactly what went on, and you're far easier to ditch than the man who she has kids with, who she's married to, who she has a house, finances entangled with.

Usually it's the spouse who should take full blame here, but you were her friend. You've both betrayed her massively, the only difference is that there are fewer consequences to her dumping you, than there are in her dumping him.

And I'm not surprised she's telling all your mutual friends, she probably wants to give them fair warning that you're an absolutely horrible friend.

As a single woman I get hit on by chancers and I close it right then, hence my female friends are still my friends.

I've had this by my friend's husbands, sometimes in front of my friend. Even though I was creeped out by them and didn't find them remotely attractive, it created some tension and bad feeling.

I fucking hate that men can affect women's friendships like this. What gives them the right?!

Friends husbands and partners are a no go area, you don't just suddenly get that deep out of nothing, you encouraged him and that was wrong. He sounds like a chancing bastard. Live and learn...and keep away from your friends partners!

As someone who has been betrayed, the emotional betrayal is far harder to get past than the physical.

That’s disgusting. Are you friends still with the men?

I think I would end a friendship if that happened because I’d feel it would inevitably backfire on me at some point. I’d get blamed for it even if it was just simmering resentment aimed at me. And aside from that, I’d feel uncomfortable and on edge when I was around their husbands at social events .

And tbh I wouldn’t think much of my friend either for letting her husband effectively sexually harass / be sleazy with me Unless she intervened and called it out.

Luckily all my friends husbands are lovely and respectful and that just doesn’t happen in my social circle. The few that had bad eggs that may have tried it at some point are now divorced anyway.

I did have a couple of guy mates who had girlfriends try it on with me when I was much younger and I just cut them off.

I do agree that sometimes men wreak havoc in female friendships though.

When I was early 20s, I had one friend sleep with another friends boyfriend. The two of them weren’t friends but they knew each other through me so I felt terrible. I cut the friend off and lost another friend who took her side. Both were 10 year friendships.

The boyfriend even reached out to apologise for all the drama he caused me 🙄 but you know what - he done me a favour in that I was able to see what my friend was like and cut her out early on rather than in later life. My friend showed poor judgment with her boyfriend too since it wasn’t the first time he cheated.

I’m so glad I don’t have women like that in my circle anymore - who tolerate sleazy men and/or sleep with men who aren’t single.

@Sweetenuf2 no, the friendships sort of drifted as I felt so awkward. I do want to get back in touch though as there is so much history.

Sorry to hear it's affected your friendships too.

To add, comments like 'go to bed' but nothing further are totally compliant with flirting and carrying on this interaction. They were knowing whilst ostensibly being sensible. What you were actually saying was 'i acknowledge whats going on is crossing a line. It's flirtatious yet I'm not blocking you, reading you the riot act, threatening to or actually forwarding the messages to your wife, or simply ignoring if I didn't know what else to do. Instead I am saying something quite knowingly in control. It would have definitely looked encouraging and flirtatious. DW has read between the lines of what you wrote and you deserved cutting off. What suggested it was for actually end there from your end?

@phishy that sucks but if they’re still with the men I’d strongly advise you not to bother getting back in contact with them for your own safety and peace of mind. No good will come from you being around their husbands.

Maybe if they eventually get rid of the men you could pick up your friendship again.

It is a shame, but that’s the reality. We can’t choose our friends partners, so we can only remove ourselves from these uncomfortable situations.

@Sweetenuf2 yes that's a good point, no point in keeping in touch as the awkwardness will still be there, unless I can limit it to seeing just my friend and her kids. It would not be surprised me if has had an affair/s in the intervening time.

I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong per se, people sometimes have feelings for others and as you say you didn’t act on them so you’ve done the right thing. I’d block him and try to distance yourself from any feelings you have for him. As for his wife, there’s little you can do except try to get on with your life.

You could have blocked him immediately. You didn't.
You could have immediately shut it down. You didn't.

You don't know he's come out smelling of roses - you just know that you're blocked.

Own your part in this shitshow. You brought it on yourself.

Girls girl? Ugh.

You make some really vile accusations to the OP with no basis. If you're projecting your own experiences then stop it.

OP isn't looking for sympathy or getting it, she was wrong to do what she did. Who is disputing that? Nobody, not even her.

I've experienced this too - and been frozen out by the 'friend' as she didn't like what she saw. What she saw was her husband being inappropriate and me telling him to fuck off.

What she inferred from that is that I 'must have lead him on'. Who wants these grubby men in the first place? Ugh.

If she hadn't have dropped me then I would have quietly dropped her because who needs a friend like that? Sisterhood doesn't exist and I have no patience with women who endorse their partner's shit behaviour either.

100% she knows something. What you have are BOTH doing is unforgivable.

Why haven't you blocked him unless you still want the drama of the drunken late night texts