Parents who cant say no

[1AngelicFruitCake]

Inspired by another thread, AIBU to think there is a growing trend of parents being unable to say no to their children? They cry/scream/theyre sad so I just gave in. Cue children who lack resilience and can’t cope when they don’t get their own way.

If you’re that parent then why?!

Got 1 of those on my street and every nice day is wrecked by the spoilt (9year old) brat screaming and crying "that's not fair" and "I want" until her parents give in or demands that the other kids give her their stuff/let her win.
Strangely enough the parents can't understand why she has no friends and even her siblings can't stand her, basically they've created a monster and that's going to be an even bigger problem as she grows up

It creates such entitlement, but it’s been going on for years.

A cashier told me years ago that I was the first parent that day she’d heard say no to their kid when they’d asked for something.
I work in a public facing role, have done for 35+ years, those kids that were given in to back then are now early 20’s. They were bratty kids and are now bratty adults who will breed their own bratty kids. Many public behave appallingly these days, way worse than even a decade ago.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5117296-nightmare-customers-and-general-bat-shittery-what-are-your-stories?page=1

Parents trying to be friends.
Parents who negotiate everything, even from an early age.
Parents who don't accept that saying no sometimes is actually healthy.
All of these things can create problems down the line.
I've observed it in action many times, sadly.

My granny once told me that kids are like pets: they need love and boundaries. I think the problem is many people consider boundaries incompatible with love. I was raised with lots of love and clear, enforced and age-appropriate boundaries. It helped me a lot to navigate the world especially when I left home. I try and do the same with my kids. Oftentimes saying “no” is the greatest act of love. And yes, it annoys me no end when me or my kids are interacting with others whose parents are incapable of saying no to the most obviously unreasonable or dangerous requests.

It's often not the saying no they find hard to do, it's the sticking to it. If you then change your mind the kid will then think you never mean it when you say no so that's why they keep nagging, because they know the parent will change their mind

Well, it is hard, and judgements are everywhere. People don't want their kids to act up in public because it attracts attention, and then people will stare/comment/silently judge. So they end up doing whatever it takes to keep the peace.

I say no to my kids plenty and I still worry in the back of my mind that other people are going to think I'm a really harsh, uncaring parent. Then when I do give my kids something I wonder if people think I'm a pushover etc.

This reminds me of being on holiday recently, sitting on a pavement waiting for my child to finish an almighty tantrum. Another mum was watching us and I was bracing myself for the comments... But she just said "glad it's not just us!" 🤣

I work in retail and the amount of people who come in and spend ridiculous amounts of money on toys and computer games is shocking. Children are spoilt these days. Last Christmas was an eye opener. For weeks after Christmas we saw people still buying large amounts of toys. Nintendo switches and stupid amounts of games a couple of days after Xmas.

I remember one customer last year almost bought our whole range of Barbie toys for her daughters birthday.. 🙄

Back when I was a kid, you got presents for Xmas and birthdays not just as a every day occurance!! Obviously kids get used to it and then when birthdays and Xmas comes round parents have to spend more and more coz they've spoilt them all year round.

What will these spoilt kids expect for their teenage years? 🙄 And the parents can't moan coz they created this situation...

Unfortunatly my DB is one of these parents. DN regularly has a meltdown if she doesn't get what she wants. Even when she is punished she goes to her room and plays on her iPad. Dread to think what kind of teenager she'll be!

I rarely said ‘no’ but I did parent consistently with distraction and fairness and with clear boundaries of what was and what wasn’t acceptable behaviour.

‘can I have sweets?’
‘not today honey - we’ll have some at the weekend.’

little one (2 year old) about to touch something they shouldn’t - call them by name.
‘Bertie let’s play with the train’

about to snatch a toy from another kid ‘ guide their hands away and remind them ‘Mary’s having a turn now - we don’t snatch’

saved the word ‘no’ and stop’ for the things that really mattered. e.g. about to step into a road a firmly said ‘stop’ or ‘no’ shocked them and worked - as it was a rare but clear message that we don’t do that.

used natural consequences when ever I could - e.g they didn’t turn tv off when asked - meant no tv for rest of day. You break it / spill it - you help clear it up. You hurt someone you say sorry and do something nice for them…. Teaching them reff asd oondibility snd how to be a nice person.

I believed in parenting by showing what you do want : that means redirecting from things they shouldn’t be doing - gently correcting -never shouting but helping them to learn by showing them correct behaviour and noticing and praising them for good behaviour.

clear boundaries snd from toddlerhood taught respect and how to function in a family unit as a team - e.g the smallest toddler can learn ‘tidy up time’ and to help put toys in a box. Older kids learnt to set the table / carry their plates out etc…. All and stage appropriate things that helped them to grow in confidence, become independent and also realise the world doesn’t owe them s living. They are not pampered princes here to be waited on hand and foot - everyone pillls their weight in our house. Yes they resisted as teenagers at times )’no one else mum makes them do this’ - but I was not having mine growing up to be entitled and helped them to learn that everyone helps and contributes in our family.

I was ‘on’ my kids behaviour and actively parenting constantly - they certainly didn’t get away with trashing the house or hurting others etc - but didn’t spend all day saying ‘no no no ‘ as I believe they become immune to the word and don’t listen if constantly said.

many ways of doing it but worked for us.

Yesterday i watched a boy of about 5 continually sit on the scales in the self service checkout. Huge queue, his mum couldn’t check out because he was stopping the process, she just kept laughing and taking him off and he kept getting back on. She just kept saying oh please come off so mummy can finish and back on he hopped. No, tell him to stop…NOW, you’re stopping everyone else from being able to leave too!

of Course parenting includes saying ‘no’ to your child etc. it might be they don’t want to do it in public, maybe the parents mental health needs support that day. But I do hate judging others parenting and don’t do it myself nor think about it. I can honestly say all the posters on here will at some time have parented in a way someone else feels is poor and not allowing a well rounded pleasant individual to develop. Parents are the ones that have to live with the children they nurture in whatever way that is. So what if they get gifts outside of Xmas. It’s hardly instant entitlement. You have no idea what’s behind such motive. Could be the child has recently completed a long period of illness etc. just stop being so judgmental.

@Ironmanbitmyfinger i agree and I was the same. I felt like when my kids were younger I was actively involved in creating the kind of kids I wanted to be around, and that meant a LOT of active teaching.

In answer to the question -I think it’s twofold. Firstly, that kind of active parenting is really hard and takes a lot of time and you have to be really committed. I was lucky in that I worked part time and have a supportive husband who was on the same page as me. I didn’t need to give in because I had the resources not to.

Secondly, I have a friend who is a total pushover and for her, it seems to be the desire to never see her child upset and also because she was desperate for her child to just really like her. It wasn’t laziness, it was a desire for her child to have the “perfect” childhood with no unhappiness ever marring it.

That sounds like us.
Just to clarify though, your examples are essential saying 'no' just with different words/actions - 'saying' no doesn't mean you have to use the actual word 'no' every time. It does mean you do have to be firm in your meaning/action though.

I watched a toddler around two years old in a pushchair point at sweets in a shop and the mum said no . I watched the toddler screw his face up , go bright red and wave his hands about . Mum gave him what he wanted and within seconds his demeanour and face was back to normal. Kids work out very quickly at a very young age that tantrums work.

I was that parent last night.
Why?
Because none of our poor neighbours deserve a screaming meltdown at 11pm and I didn't want the police called.
DS is on the MAAT pathway (autism) and cannot self-regulate.
Had I not given in, he would have continued screaming.
I could write to all the neighbours but what I really need is to live in Space or off grid or in a detached house miles away from anywhere.

Definitely !! I know we were constantly indirectly saying ‘no’ but was just trying to explain that you can do it in non confrontational ways snd don’t have to be saying ‘no no no’ every 5 seconds

one thing I learnt was to tell them what you do want rather than what you don’t want.

so ‘hold onto the trolley’ told them exactly what I wanted / expected in Tesco which I then praised them for doing. rather than reacting to bad behaviour with ‘don’t touch’ ‘don’t run’ ‘stop poking your sister’ …

I always tried to frame things positively and tell them what I wanted them to do rather than endless ‘no’s’ and ‘don’t’ etc but also there was a time and place and if they were about to hurt someone or themselves or not listening then a firm ‘no’ was used and worked as they knew I meant it.

similarly with consequences - only give out a consequence you are prepared to see through.

if I said ‘no telly’ I followed through. No ifs no buts. Consistency is paramount and no amount of whining would change a consequence from bad behaviour and they quickly understood that if they didn’t stop protesting - 1 day telly ban would quickly become 2… firm but fair.

Yep, I get it.
As I said, that was us too.
I just wanted to add the small point about ways of saying no.

They don't 'work' if they are not rewarded for them.
I also think it's important to distinguish between a tantrum and a meltdown, because they are different things and can happen for very different reasons - of course it's possible for a child to have both.

Speaking as a teacher of 10/11 yr olds, I agree! As each year passes, the kids get steadily less resilient! We also have significant numbers of 4yr olds coming to us who aren't toilet trained, have never used cutlery & are unable to get themselves dressed!

I am parenting with someone who can’t say no to our DD. He was parented very very harshly and I think in his mind he is not replicating slightly abusive strict parenting…sadly his lack of boundaries is also slightly abusive as in its neglect. He doesn’t keep her safe. Won’t even say no when she is running around in a busy car park.

any tips from anyone who has similar on how to get him to understand?

It’s gone from one extreme to the other, many kids were hit in the 1970’s, a stinging smack across the top of the legs was quite common amongst my friends at school. The bad old days really. Now many want to be friends with their children and can’t say no. Neither end is healthy in the least.

The end result is my friends who are still teaching are dealing with little shits on a regular basis. It’s what teachers are leaving in droves, that’s as much of a deal as under funding is in education.

This is, I think, at the heart of why my friend can’t say no. She had a poor upbringing with a bitter divorce, semi abusive parenting and so in an attempt to do the opposite, she’s gone too far.

I was in a shop last weekend and this little girl said to her mum ‘mummy, I would like to play with your phone now, I’m bored’. Mum turned round and said ‘since when does that happen when we’re out, you’ll be fine’. And the child just got on with shopping. It was brilliant!
It happens so often in schools - the teacher has spent the day with one child because they have (for want of a better word) been a little shit, they tell Mum who stands there stroking the child’s head saying ‘don’t worry, we’ll go and get some sweets!’.
This is why in about 20 years time we are in for a whole load of trouble in this country!!

I heard of a 6 year old who, in order to take the medicine they needed to get better, was taken to a toy shop and bought a stack of presents. Not life saving medicine, run of the mill medicine that meant they could still attend school!

Children who get bought a toy everytime they do the weekly shop because otherwise they’ll scream.

One of my family members who won’t enforce mealtimes in their 5 year old so they eat biscuits, bread, crisps when it suits them instead.

My children attend a school some of my acquaintances look down on and I work at a school with better off families. The worst behaviour by fair is from the entitled middle class children where I work. I despair at some parents!

It can be tricky when you are triggered by the sound of your child relentlessly whining for something