Parents who cant say no

[1AngelicFruitCake]

Inspired by another thread, AIBU to think there is a growing trend of parents being unable to say no to their children? They cry/scream/theyre sad so I just gave in. Cue children who lack resilience and can’t cope when they don’t get their own way.

If you’re that parent then why?!

Maybe start with 'no extreme being good'? We all need boundaries and have to learn about realistic expectations and boundaries, partly for our own safety. Discipline can be done in a loving way and helps a child develop and mature. Treats mean more when they aren't an everyday occurrence.....or perhaps let him watch Charlie and the Chocolate Factory again and watch what happens to spoiled kids? 🫣

You do know that some kids have birthdays in January!

I know a 6 year old who needs help with all these things at home because the parents try to remove any inconvenience from their child’s life. I always wonder how the girl fares in school.

It’s interesting that more and more people are buying huge numbers of presents ( we got to that stage too and I loathed it), but I suspect the January purchases could be Christmas money they’ve been given.

I teach 5/6 year olds and am old-school 'firm but fair.' After the initial kick back from children when they are told 'no', I then see the sense of relief that they have from having firm and predictable boundaries. Putting an end to the power struggle frees up so much emotional and cognitive space for children, and it is unkind to deny them that.

A big problem which I have seen in my 20 years experience, is the preference for parents to ignore unwanted behaviour as a strategy to manage behaviour. I think it is incredibly unfair and bypasses a massive learning opportunity for children. Some theorise that children are using the unwanted behaviour for attention, and as such, it should be ignored. On the contrary, the bad behaviour is sometimes due to the child's sense of entitlement and can also be caused by their desperate internal compass begging the adults to demonstrate their leadership and take the reins. They are asking for boundaries. Distracting children older than toddler age (and I'm not a fan of it for toddlers either) often robs children of the sense of working through the painful emoiton and coming out the other side unscathed, and learning that they can handle th3 big feelings.

Parents think they are being kind and loving by helping their children avoid negative emotions and really they are robbing their kids of absolutely crucial skills of developing a relationship with their own emotions.

Obviously I am talking generally, and not with reference to children with additional needs but I've rarely worked with a child who did not benefit from being told no, in the long term.

I think I am one of those parents.

I have two kids and mostly parent alone (husband works long hours with lots of travelling and we have no family support).

The early years nearly broke me because the kids didn't sleep. I've never known sleep deprivation like it.

A trip out anywhere was difficult. But easier than time spent at home, which was even worse.

When the kids would tantrum and demand things I didn't have the energy to fight them so would give into demands.

If this happened to be at a shop, I would usually buy whatever piece of tat they wanted just to get out the shop without a screaming match.

I was very aware that they didn't really want it or attribute any value to it and it would instantly be discarded.

I just did what I could to get through the day.

They are 8 and 5 now. I still find them hard work (wondering if one of them is ND) but I am not quite so sleep deprived, and I can see that not saying No isn't doing them any favours, so I do now say no.

I was always aware of it, but just simply didn't have the energy to implement it.

I can see now that giving into them doesn't make things easier. If I give in and say "ok, you can have that sweetie", we will go into the next shop and they will still start clamouring for something in there. It doesn't placate them so saying yes isn't any easier than saying no.

I am very aware that continuing on this vein
will make them unlikeable and unpopular and am working very hard on changing it.

They are spoilt. We do lots of holidays and days out.

We were in France last week. The night we got home (husband having driven for 8+ hours) the 8 year old shouted "you are the worst dad in the world".

I was absolutely furious. I held his shoulders and I explained to him as clearly as I could how completely out of order that was. I tried to be clear and calm but it was very much hissed at him, he could see how angry I was.

Everything is always about him. He doesn't see me and his dad as real people. He is selfish and self obsessed. He is also a lovely little boy but I know people won't see that from what I've written.

So whether what I said will have any effect, who knows.

Also, I guess the other side of it is that it was a long journey for him as well, he was tired and stressed out and just lashing out and he's only young.

At the end of the day, I am just doing my best. I was constantly told "no" as a child and I remember the constant feelings of disappointment. So I guess part is wanting to give my kids everything to make them happy, part is the exhaustion and not having the energy to say no then fight them.

As I say, I am aware of it and working to change it.

I've negotiated things from an early age.

It was from a good place - I thought giving them choices would give them a bit of autonomy.

But it hasn't worked. They do seem to think they have a lot more say in things than they do and struggle to accept that I'm in charge.

Wish I had done it differently.

You sound great 😊 also you are aware of the impact it has on friendships. My daughter is in a class with a child who is an only child, mum has said she feels really guilty she couldn’t give her a sibling so she is spoilt. She goes for more meals out and shopping sprees in one month than I do in six months! Shes a nightmare.

Good luck with your little boy.

Or buying ahead in the sales. I buy both clothes and toys in the January sales ready for the following Winter/DCs' summer birthdays as well as anything that would make good party gifts, and then again in the Summer sales for the next year/Christmas.

Janet Lansbury is, in my opinion, the best resource on strong, compassionate boundaries as a parent. The model is based on respecting your children enough to provide robust, loving, and consistent leadership, in the manner of a really competent, confident and awesome boss that you may have had at work. It's not based on a dictatorship model, but very much on building a deep emotional connection within a mentor/mentee structure. The parent knows they are the parent, the child knows they are the child, children are permitted to go through big feelings which are recognised and accepted by the adult, within the safety of the firm boundaries that are in place. It is different to a lot of the other gentle models, and can be implemented from birth.

I might be one of these parents. I do say no, regularly and stick to it, but I just feel a complete failure with my nearly 4 year old. She’s just so challenging I don’t know what to do. What I mean is - I actually have no clue how to be a parent. I have no village, I have no support, I had an abusive childhood and abusive marriage. I have read EVERY book there is but she doesn’t really respond in the way the books say she will (I’m looking at you how to talk so little kids listen 😡)

I do say no. But she sulks, and whines and cries and then gets so genuinely upset and dysregulated. I don’t give in but she doesn’t seem to learn either, and when she’s so upset she’s hyperventilating or can’t breathe of course I comfort her. So maybe the cycle continues. I don’t know. I just feels like despite whatever I do she never improves.

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2021/11/finding-our-best-response-to-childrens-turbulent-emotions/

Give Janet a try.

I went to the supermarket yesterday and a little girl was steadfastly refusing to sit in the trolley or walk. Her Father just keep asking her to pick one option and she was stamping her feet. They were still there ten minutes later when I was leaving. I never asked my children what they wanted to do - I just told them what we were doing. And tried to make the things they didn’t want to do fun. Watching parents struggle needlessly and children being upset is sad.

Thanks for your honest reply.
Your third paragraph sums up the broad results I've seen with negotiating too - the children expect to have an equal say in every situation e.g. repeatedly challenging teachers instructions, asking if they can do something different and holding up class explaining why, thinking they're being bullied when another adult or child says 'no', and so on. There is definitely a place for some negotiation, especially as they get older, but it's not always going to work.

I voted YABU because I am nearly sixty and there were kids like this in my class, it’s definitely not a new thing.

It creates problems in so many ways. When dh and I got together he told me that he wasn't able to say no to his kids, and that him and ex had to get grandma round to say no as they couldn't.

Caused massive problems and resentment with my own children of similar age when we were all together, because his kids were just so entitled and were incandescent with rage that mine had a say too in anything.

They have grown into manipulative, entitled adults.

Probably worth mentioning at this point that many SEN children prefer predictability, routine and boundaries. Many of the children I work with see things as quite black and white with no grey area, so giving in can be quite confusing for them as the boundary keeps shifting. This in turn can raise the anxiety as they try and re-establish where the new boundary is.

If anyone here suspects SEN then there are lots of resources on how to create a predictable routine, with visual cues (Now, Next boards with PECS). Be aware of sensory issues, too much verbal communication, cognitive overload etc.

Navigating emotions is hard for children (and even for some adults). You can find free support on ELSA or look at Thrive which some schools use to help those children learn to manage big feelings.

www.elsa-support.co.uk

www.thriveapproach.com

@Ozgirl75 this is the crux of it.

I parent in this way and will admit I find it very hard to say no. I find it genuinely triggering when my daughter is sad and being told no. Having grown up in an abusive and poor household, always worrying about money and never being told yes to anything I know this is why I overcompensate. My DH can't stand it and I'm trying to be a bit firmer but I genuinely struggle with it. I will say DD is well behaved at school and a sweet girl but materially she is spoilt.

I think people are more critical when the adult says no then gives in. I don't think people think it's harsh or uncaring they are just waiting for the inevitable cave in that happens with so many.

What does this mean though? Surely nobody wants or enjoys listening to their child (or any child for that matter), whine relentlessly. But they will continue to do it if they learn that they will always get their own way?

Exactly.

I'm not saying no alot because I have said no alot so my children know that there is no point in asking for things I find unreasonable (like sweets in the shops, extra screen time etc.). They are 11 and 14 so they know that I won't give in. I have always told them that I say no because I love you and I think about your health. They do get snacks, sweets etc just not all the time they would like some.
A neighbour's daughter is 19 and she's a bright beautiful young woman but also a monster. Her parents never said no. I remember her tantrums if they did and they always caved in. She was the boss and is still the boss getting to dictate everything in her parents' life. Her mum once told me that she knows her daughter is an entitled brat but that it's too late to do anything about it. If Madame wants to have chinese they order it. If she wants to see a friend 3 hours away on a whim they drive. Shopping when she wants. Come and pick me up at 3am, sure. She changes friends all the time because nobody can stand her. I feel sorry for her because she has not learnt to think about anyone else's wishes or needs so it will be hard for her in life. Her mum is a GP so she ought to know about the importance of boundaries you think. 🤷‍♀️

Thank you for being so honest and I think your story is true for many. Sadly, not as many try to change their way of parenting when they acknowledge the damage it’s causing.

Ive been teaching for over 20 years and the entitlement and not accepting of responsibility from children or parents is frightening. It’s making a poor society for us all.

To be fair I think we live in a society where a lot of parents now want to be their child's best friend and leave the actual parenting to the authorities... school, police etc. and of course these organisations simply can't patent a child as well as a parent can so we end up with spoilt entitled children who can and will get away with murder

To those who don't want to say no because they feel they heard it too much, I understand, but never saying no isn't helpful either.