How to stop DD embarrassing me?

[HEllo114]

My DD acts up whenever we see people. How can I plan ahead and not let this become another day like previous ones. examples: park playdate with my daughters friend went lovely they had a great time and us mums got along and chatted away. At the end I have my DD enough notice (10 minutes to go etc.). The other girls when told by their mums they are leaving happily got off the equipment and went whereas my DD started crying she didn’t want to leave and punched me! One mum witnessed this and looked horrified. I felt so embarrassed. They must think I’m such a bad mother. She’s 8 btw. She has these melt downs all the time. Not ND. Spoken to school who have said she’s well behaved at school.

Because the reason someone would post a particular behavioural problem on mumsnet is because there is something wrong.

Here we go, the experts of mumsnet claiming yet another child is ND.

Just because a child is being a brat, doesn't necessarily follow that the child is ND.

IF she is, it's not like you grow up and laws/rules don't apply to you. I can't go round hitting people and then say I 'can't help it' because I am ND (I am). If she can behave herself at school, whether you want to call it masking or not, then she is able to exercise control over herself. No excuses should be made for punching her mother, of course she can 'help it', and OP, I think your punishments need rethinking. I'd be inclined to refuse playdates for a period of time as a natural consequence, as well as a more immediate screen time ban or whatever.

Btw, my stepdaughter is ND and had form for misbehaving like this at the end of birthday parties. The behaviour has stopped since she was forced to sit a couple of parties out, went to one and was told if there was any trouble at the end, she would not attend another. Being ND is not an open excuse for violence.

Then, when she has no devices, can't watch tv (so during her waking hours, nor can anyone else)... and you've left the supermarket without any food so there's nothing for dinner for anyone...

And there is nothing left to stop her doing or take away from her...

Then what do you do?

By that point, she has nothing further to lose, why even bother trying to mask emotions or 'be good' etc?

You may say 'well she will learn and it won't get to that point' but actually if she is ND she almost certainly will if the parent is bloody minded enough.

Aversive consequences like this, particularly if ramped up really quickly with no attempt to address why the behaviour is occurring, rapidly leave you with nowhere else to go.

And on top, damage the relationship between parent and child, further increasing the frequency of unwanted behaviour.

Dear god you really don’t understand ND. I despair and give up.

Yes they can.

But the OP has mentioned some specific behaviours which have made a few of us think "I recognise that".

We can give our opinions/suggestions and the OP can do with them what she wants.

It was another forum years ago that opened my eyes to that fact that my DS might be ND and it transpired he was. I would have been right out of my depth and making things worse if it hadn't been for the fantastic forum on Adoption UK.

No, I don't.

What I know is that the behaviour she is showing points that way. That includes the perfect behaviour at school. Schools, by the way, are generally clueless about neurodiversity. It is worth exploring, because if she is ND then no amount of harsh discipline will improve things - whereas there are many strategies that will.

I struggle to believe you are unable to understand this.

@Createausername1970 aunties and uncles who know her well are not necessarily knowledgeable about neurodiversity. People generally aren't, as this thread clearly demonstrates.

You might be completely right about your daughter not being ND. However, it also possible that she IS masking and that's why everything is off at home. At school the kids do a group task. For her to achieve the same level as the others of respecting others needs, being thoughtful of what others are thinking, sharing and taking turns nicely etc, she puts twice as much effort as they do, because all those things are twice as hard for her, but she doesn't want to not do those, because that would hurt her classmates and make them shun her. When she comes home having worked twice as hard as everyone else all day, she has no reserves left. When you say to her and her brother that they must share their stuff, her brother still has those reserves and thinks "oh yes I must share with my sister" and puts some effort into doing so. She just has no energy to create any effort, so she just says "no".

My mum scared me to death.
I don’t ever remember acting out, because she had “the grip.” My sister and I laugh about it now, but mum would get our upper arm between her thumb and two middle fingers and squeeze and lean down and whisper, ”do we need to go to the car?”
We never once had to go the car. I don’t even know what we thought would happen in the car.
I’ve got no practical advice for you, OP, I’m sorry.
I hope you and your daughter arrive on the same page and on the same path.
If it helps, my mum and sister and I were extremely close all our lives until mum died at 96.

I'm sorry you had a mum that scared you that much.

This made me feel so sad, just reads to me like a girl whose struggling and doesn’t have any family members who understand her 😢

Pointing out ND as a possibility from the ops own words and examples of certain situations is entirely reasonable.

People don't mention it for shits and giggles, we do so mainly because the fight for help with ND children takes an extortionate amount of time and energy, we know from experince early intervention is the key to good outcomes.

It is not being used as an EXCUSE either but rather as a possible EXPLANATION because IF ops DD is ND then it would serve her and everyone involved best to learn how to parent her DDs Neurotype and create a more harmonious household.

The ultimate goal is to parent effectively as efficiently as possible without resorting to abuse.

I'm really disappointed to see many outdated and abusive behaviour recommended, ( congratulations on parenting through fear ) especially to what could be a very confused little girl that needs more patience than most.

I agree with all the others who are eyerolling about the immediate shouts of 'ND'. There's no reason to suspect this child is anything other than a badly behaved child who behaves badly because her mum is afraid and lets her get away with it. No WAY would a kid of mine push a trolley if I didn't want them to because I didn't want a scene. OP you need a lot of very firm boundaries with her, and when she does something she shouldn't, she gets into trouble immediately no matter how much of a 'scene' she makes. She won't learn the first or second or even tenth time but she'll get there if you keep your boundaries firm. Like 'No, I'm pushing the trolley, let go'. 'Do NOT shout at me. If you shout at me again, I'm going to put back the nice yoghurts you chose/take away the ipad' etc. No 8 year old should have an ipad anyway tbh.

So much of what you've said sounds just like my AuDHD 11yo DS, right down to being a model pupil in class. I'd put money on her being ND.

Actually, it's a terrible lesson. Hitting a child is never the answer, no matter how challenging the child's behaviour may be.

I didn't report your previous post, but I'm glad that MNHQ deleted it.

Perhaps she is nd, its hard to know.
Kids can have issues leaving fun times too eg an adopted child i knew was awful for that.
Asd can mean not reacting to the normal hierarchy of parents/adults/teachers etc

how are her friendships, does she get invited out to peoples houses or at weekends etc?

My dd1 did struggle with hierarchy, not much with transition or change, trouble at school but it was almost all with other kids in playground. Shes autistic. She stopped all but 1 party invite in y3. Similarly only invites to friends house very rarely. Sleep issues birth to 1. Then slept about 12 hours except was awful for years teething. But now sleeps a few hours a night.
Dd2 has sensory issues with socks, trousers, can be impulsive, is starting to show that shes not making very close firendships. Very very few invites to houses. 1 in a year. none at weekends. But still getting maybe 10 parties a year.
Explosive after school. But good behaviour observed by teachers.
Has never slept more than 10h. And that was from about 3.5yo. Basically often exhausted but wont sleep.

@HEllo114 Strict consequences for poor behaviour.

Stick to them, don't give in.

Your Daughter clearly CAN behave, just chooses not to with you.

She will instinctively know you afraid of her ''kicking off''

Next time she kicks off, be firm, don't give in, and it will probably be a shock to her to see mum standing firm for once.

It doesn't matter if she makes a scene in Tesco or Waitrose, or in a Café- don't be phased by it.

No one will care, they will just be glad it's not their child creating a scene.

Almost all children can do this at some stage.

Your relatives say she is ''spoiled''...They probably can see the behaviours playing out in front of them - {it's much easier to see from a distance}-

She acts up in front of people as she thinks you won't feel comfortable disciplining her.

Your son- she could well be jealous of him, too. {The ''good'' boy who everyone likes. }

Did this actually work? Do you drop everything on your schedule (friends birthdays, family staying etc) and just police them being in their room ? Genuinely asking as my daughter is like the OP’s, same age, but under Early Help who are looking into ND assessment. I was hit today but if I enact this it’s everybody’s week ruined - but is that what it needs?

Every single post about children's behavioour now just turns into a thread about neurodiversity. Even when the parents say "no my child is NT", they are told that they just don't know the signs. What's the point any more of posting for advice? The other advice is shouted down and lost. No child whether NT or ND should be punching their mother.

Absolutely this.

Firm boundaries are unfashionable these days, but are so often needed.

I think the reason people think ND is
most 8 yo are socially aware enough not to
punch
cry
whine at going home

in front of their friends
no matter what punishment they would get anyone. They know because they don t see other kids their age behave like this. And they observe that. At 8 kids know they cant stay indefinitely at the park.

i saw an 8 yo i know at a party recently im convinced they are ND. (Very shy, sound sensitive, quite controlling when they did join in, clings to 1 main friend). I didnt say anything to.the mum as it would be awkward.

Please don't follow this advice if you suspect your child might be ND 😔. My son has ADHD and is autistic. Great at school, but we had very extreme meltdowns at home and violence towards us (well, mostly me). Punishments that would work with most kids just didn't work and we ended up damaging our relationship massively. We've spent the past two years trying to rebuild it after his SENCO recommended an autism assessment. I did a lot of research at that point and it all clicked. He was diagnosed last year. Since we've taken the complete opposite approach to the "you need to punish them properly" brigade, things have improved hugely. You have to shake the weight of everyone else's judgement and learn to ignore it when you have a child that's ND, but connection, patience, understanding and learning how to help him regulate has seen him flourishing.

I mean, if your child's behaviour is at the point where you're needing to post online for help, I'd say it's much more likely you're seeing some ND traits. So perhaps that's why you see it mentioned so much. Many of us have ND and NT children in the same household so it's not like there's some conspiracy to diagnose everyone... Just parents who have seen the damage that can be done to children by following some of the advice on here and want to help other parents avoid the mistakes they made.

Oh thank goodness it;'s not just me who rolls their eyes at every child who shows a sign of being naughty and brattish is an undiagnosed autistic.

Would they be so keen to label a man ''Neurodivergent'' is he was a charmer to his colleagues, yet punched his wife at home?
Of course they wouldn't.

On Mumsnet , her good behaviour is ''Masking'' - and her tantrums are ''meltdowns''..

Likewise anyone over the age of 50 who is causing probs or being difficult has ''Dementia'' suggested.

@Whippetlovely I agree with you, too... people are desperate to write off bad behaviour as 'neurodiversity'.

No one is simply allowed to be an undisciplined ''little madam'' as mum called it

• Bad behaviour used to have consequences - now it's given a ''diagnosis'' - {Your username.. a canine equivalent is when one sees a badly behaved dog in public, the owner often says ''He's a RESCYOOO'' as if that lets them off the hook. {In the past, 'Rescue' or Dog's Home dogs were expected to be trained and to behave - no excuses were given.
• }

• A girl that was damaging shelves in the local pharmacy {breaking them , making a mess }was excused by her mother who shrugged and said ''She has dyspraxia''.... zero attempt to clear up the mess

And many of those with experience of parenting ND and NT children roll our eyes frequently at people that still think acting like Super Nanny is the answer to everything 😊

I've never suggested to anyone that they don't work to reduce/stop those kinds of behaviours. I just point out that there are better ways to do it with ND kids who have quite different brains. As I said, my son had quite a lot of this behaviour and typical approaches made no difference, other than to make us all unhappy. Since understanding autism and working hard to learn to parent accordingly, we have a different kid. Sometimes, if something isn't working, there's a reason. Maybe it isn't ND, but I don't think it hurts to check it out properly. If it is ND, it definitely does hurt not to look into it 🤷🏼‍♀️