Why do a lot of men seem to think it's 1954 not 2024?

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I have been on here for a while and it seems that women seem to be expected to do the bulk of child care, housework, have jobs and manage everything to do with the house from renewing tv licences to employing all trades people.
In real life I know several men like this. They work, have their hobbies, go to the pub, have weekends away with the lads.
Of course I also know men that pull their weight. But child care and housework seems to be women's work.
Why does it get put up with?
Is it because their mothers did everything for them?

Im male but have always discussed and agreed with my wife who does what. Until a couple of years ago I worked 70+ hours a week at this time of year so she did most things. I'm retired now so have a nice cleaning rota, manage her business accounts but still have time to see my mates etc...

I suppose I'm asking aibu for asking why their isn't a fair balance in most partnerships.

Actually that's a really good description of myself and I'm female

Because some women perpetuate it.

I used to work with a woman who regularly used the phrase 'boys jobs & girls jobs' all the time, any DIY would be classed for boys and anything to do with kitchens or preparing food would be a 'girls' job.'

Mums (of which there should be plenty here) should get their sons cooking, cleaning and doing laundry from a young age to get them ready for life otherwise they are just enabling this mindset - that a woman will do all these things for you! (And she probably will if you are wealthy enough to pay her!)

It’s because this is what was modelled to them growing up and PP are right it is engrained. I’ve lived with my husband for nearly a decade and we are only now getting to a stage where he does his fair share of household tasks without being prompted by me. I earn nearly double what he earns, I do believe his is genuinely not consciously misogynistic in any way but my god it has taken some work to undo what his parents taught him.
interestingly I think my MIL feels I should be taking care of him but recently she was unwell and couldn’t do her housework and then has moaned about the fact her husband isn’t stepping up despite the fact she has enabled this for over 40 years. Mil doesn’t appear to have any insight into this.

@Plano obviously I don't know what goes on behind people's doors but in my personal family/friendship group I honestly don't think anyone lives like that.
But most of Mumsnet seems to be this weird parallel universe that I can't relate to at all 🤷

Its not always specific roles for gender either..i cooked... cleaned.. food shops...emotional labour... organized everything start to finish...from outings to holidays to dates...he never organized 1 date in 25 year. I did decorating...fixing things if broken...i did DIY...etc. his job was to empty bin once day and cut lawn once every blue moon. Both gender roles were down to me. I was knackered. He was fine. I got out after 25 yr. I would now rather be alone than have someone who wont contribute.

same - this honestly isn’t the norm for most people I know and bear in mind I’ve lived with some married couple friends for short periods of times or at least for a few days so I have a fairly decent idea of how things tick along in their home from what I’ve seen as well as what they tell me . Of course no one know what’s going on behind closed doors but from what I can see it’s not the case for them .

A lot of men I work with also take annual leave and use their flexi for school holidays childcare and school pick ups/events.

For example, my manager was late a few days ago as he was attending his sons end of year assembly. My former manager worked compressed hours - 5 days into 4 - for childcare reasons.

But equally I’m in no doubt a lot of couples do have very unequal relationships although I do think it’s more common among certain groups.

I'm a SAHM

I do all the housework as in cleaning, most of the washing of the clothes. I meal plan, do the shopping and cook. My partner does the clean up after dinner. I do the vast bulk of the childcare. I normally walk the dog twice a day, but only once atm

Partner does breakfast and breakfast clean up, empty dishwasher, walks the dog in the morning, because I'm feeling more fragile as I'm pregnant and have HG.

Partner does anything outside related in the garden etc, any house maintenance e.g. replacing a tap, redecorating is his job too. He sorts the electric, gas & internet, house insurance. He also looks after the cars, gets them MOTed, he does the servicing himself. Fixes any problems with the cars.

We do bedtime with DD together, she's sleeping with me at the moment and DP gets DD's double to himself. Swing & roundabout with both of these.

I think it's fairly equal, I do get pissed off sometimes doing all the housework, especially when DD was a baby (she is 3 now and started preschool recently which made a big difference for me) but he hates doing the housework and I can't be bothered learning about various DIY things so they can be fixed, would rather he just did it.

Most of the men I know help equally with the home and childcare. My own parents were very traditional mam stayed home and did all the housework and childcare while dad worked really long hours. My brothers are both very hands on with with family life though as they saw how hard it was for mam to manage mostly alone.

My DH does more than his share of cleaning and cooking and definitely did an equal split of nappy changing, getting up at night to soothe the babies etc. But there are certain things that he just doesn’t give a shit about (I kind of agree with him, but can’t escape caring about it myself so I take on this burden):

• Costumes for school
• Arranging presents for anyone, but particularly all the school things.
• Keeping boxes and things to take into school for projects
• Attending any school info presentation - he maintains that you can get the info from the slides
• Arranging play dates proactively
• Speaking to other parents to establish relationships
• Sorting out all the clubs when they get booked up quickly
• Arranging holidays around the school holidays and childcare
• Whether it’s a PE kit day or not
• Arranging family days out
• Birthday cards and having things wrapped and bought in time
• Running a stall at a school fair
• Buying uniform and making sure it’s ready
• Putting on sun cream and sending in hats

He will do a lot of these things, but I’ve got to think about it in the first place, and by the time he does it I’ve usually done it. He has a hobby (not cycling) that involves him having to get various kit and make plans for, so he’s capable of doing it, but he just prioritises that above the tasks above. So he would argue that he’s not neglectful but clearly doesn’t consider the above mum type tasks.

Well if I could go to work where I sit on my arse and then come home and sit on my arse, I'd probably feel annoyed at anyone who tried to stop my cushy setup.

The trick is to not let it happen in the first place. I'm a SAHM and my DH works from home but when they were babies he changed 99% of nappies, made breakfast with them in the sling, cleans up with them in the sling, made dinner a good chunk of the time. Dressed them 99% of the time. Took them swimming etc etc. He's still a very hands on dad because he never got a different option so he's bonded and attentive.

Don't think, "oh no dear, I'll do it, I can handle everything" because that's how it starts and it's much harder to get them off their cushy arse than to never allow it to begin with.

That's why I never had children.
First and foremost, it seemed bizarre to me from the age 13 (45 now) to just cancel myself for someone else (extreme, yes, but that's me) and second, I never really trusted ANY man to commit myself to something as big as having a kid.
Without exaggeration, I couldn't be happier now.
(Married for 20 years).

The big issue is that whatever women do, the assumption is that it is less 'valuable' than anything men do.

That assumption is made societally, by wider families, by employers, by colleagues.

I have been fighting this the whole of my adult life. I'm the one with the 'big' job. I have had to work harder, commit more, gain more experience, qualify more than male colleagues to get to the same point.

This has only been possible for me because DH has taken on the domestic role.

Yes I think partly it’s the mummy’s boys who had everything done for them!
but also- I think they want their cake and eat it often!
nothing wrong with being a sahm, the dad works and therefore the mum takes on the bulk of the house running as ‘their job,’ BUT they should have full access to income as a joint income for the family (none of this give her packet money business- so demeaning).
or ….. wife works- then household takes should be shared. But some men want the best of both worlds- wife to work and do the home tasks while he goes to the pub!

What about her retirement? Should you divorce or die before she does, she will have a huge gap in her pension and will likely die in poverty.

It's very common. But, as a woman who experienced that, it eats away and you resent the husband and all love goes.

Much more free time after divorce and more money due to career being able to take off.

We've drifted into our parents' roles.

DH was very self-sufficient when we met and it was an attractive feature. He was well established as a functional adult, but that's a double edged sword as he was also established in a career that was well paid with long hours.

I'd get home from work earlier so it made logical sense to do things like the dinner, and the role crept up on me.
I also grew up with 90s girl power feminism and being empowered to do anything the boys were doing... so I happily learned some of the "blue" jobs. I thought this was a good thing having had a suddenly bereaved mum flounder when dad died, and left with no idea how half of domestic life worked.

The toll of pregnancy, birth and EBF, plus generally organising the DCs lives on maternity leave. When I went back to work, I had to cook soon after getting home because the DCs couldn't wait another 3 hours for DH to come home and then cook. Part-time was worse for division of labour than being full-time or not working- somehow domestic life doesn't follow the working hours split very naturally.
Long term I ended up as a SAHM because of a child with additional needs who struggled with childcare. DH had been P/T many years earlier but found he was still doing 100% work on 80% salary and messing with his job would be financial lunacy, and it was my lower paid career with much poorer value per hour worked that took the hit. Also DH travels a lot and often at short notice

DH will do things obligingly on request, but there's little domestic initiative there. There is a large amount of mental load tasks that he's oblivious to. The best thing I ever did was to see his laundry as personal care and leave that as his task. I can go away and not think twice about it.

Raising sons in this setting, I do emphasise that it's all teamwork. The unpaid jobs matter too. They do have jobs to do like loading the dishwasher and if they don't do it, the house becomes unpleasant. I point out that in most households parents do both have to split paid and unpaid work between them and that our set up is not the default.

Where I see friends with a more equal spilt of paid and unpaid work, she's normally the higher paid earner and she's clearly set out roles of who does what... it didn't come from the male doing it instinctively.

I agree with this.

An older friend said she had made the mistake of allowing her DH to superglue himself to his armchair early in their marriage and now she couldn't get him out of it.

DH fully knows he has it easy. He has a low stress, low income, low hours job but he has nice house, nice car, nice holidays and he should get a good retirement. Now the DCs are grown and largely gone he also has time for gym and hobbies.

In return DH is responsible for all things domestic. Fortunately he is a 'do-er' whether it's laundry, housework or DIY.

I agree with most of the posts on here, its a really interesting thread - thank you.

I think (hope) Im an extreme example, I actually posted on AIBU a few weeks ago as I was at my wits end with everything I needed to do, and I was told (rightly) that Im married to a lazy twat and I should leave him. Aside from a few heavily micromanaged tasks he does nothing and honestly thinks he is an amazing husband for the small amount he does do.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5013677-to-think-dh-should-do-more-around-the-house

People question why women stay in marriages like this and I completely agree but it also isn't always that simple. Whenever I have threatened to leave he promises to change, guilts me in staying so I don break up the family etc etc it improves for a few days then goes back, rinse and repeat. I also have terrible self esteem, so I've decided to quietly start getting things in place to leave, properly, with no going back. I imagine he'll be totally blindsided, claim Im a spoilt brat that had a wonderful life and he never saw it coming but I've given it my all and Im tired. At this point I actively dislike the man but Im just playing the game until I have ducks in a row....

I know what you are saying op but in my experience very few of my friends and acquaintances worked full time so that's the reason, the handful of women I know who worked full time with children had household help. I personally don't know any women who worked full time and did everything in the house

OP asks:

” Why does it get put up with?
Is it because their mothers did everything for them? “

I ask:

what about the father? It is all about the father they did or did not grow up with you see

WHY are you looking for a woman to blame? Why do mothers of men get ALL the fucking blame and the fathers come off Scot free? Why is everything always a woman’s fault?

so tired

look at your own misogyny first OP

You don't know any single parents then as that is totally the norm

You both sound comfortably and arrogantly
well off. Those are rather sweeping statements. Please try not to sound quite so judgemental. Some jobs especially those in farming require huge workloads, cows don’t milk themselves. Also, some jobs are so poorly paid that if one partner is going to be a stay at home parent then the other, in effect, has to work two jobs to make ends meet.

Exactly.
The freedom is worth everything.

I think it’s getting worse again. Looking at younger colleagues there seems to be a trend of the women doing the bulk of domestic work. I’m wondering if the rot sets in with the very long maternity leaves. Where I work women are typically off 14-15 months with leave accrual. By then the inequality of domestic tasks is established. I don’t know anyone whose partner has taken parental leave. I then notice the woman always takes leave when kids are sick. The man’s job is apparently too important or ‘we can’t afford for him to be off’.

It’s absolutely bonkers and worse than the 1050s. My granny always used to talk about how my grandfather would get up early and get the nappies boiled and the clean dry ones pre folded, then he’d get the train into London to his civil service job in Whitehall. He also washed the kitchen floor before bed so it could dry over night while granny fed the baby.

By contrast, I was told “you’re so lucky your dh helps So much at home!” Er, we both work full time so why the fuck wouldn’t he?!