Why do a lot of men seem to think it's 1954 not 2024?

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I have been on here for a while and it seems that women seem to be expected to do the bulk of child care, housework, have jobs and manage everything to do with the house from renewing tv licences to employing all trades people.
In real life I know several men like this. They work, have their hobbies, go to the pub, have weekends away with the lads.
Of course I also know men that pull their weight. But child care and housework seems to be women's work.
Why does it get put up with?
Is it because their mothers did everything for them?

Im male but have always discussed and agreed with my wife who does what. Until a couple of years ago I worked 70+ hours a week at this time of year so she did most things. I'm retired now so have a nice cleaning rota, manage her business accounts but still have time to see my mates etc...

I suppose I'm asking aibu for asking why their isn't a fair balance in most partnerships.

Sorry I think you misread. I was saying that that is the answer I get from my DP, I wasn't digging at the other poster.

Frankly, often it's the case that the woman in the partnership HAS to put up with a bone idle arse of a husband. Men still earn the lion's share of the financial income plus - sorry to say - some men have an aptitude for settling disputes with their fists and feet.

My husband does 50% of all domestic work, more if I have a busy period at work. No kids though.

Reading the replies here I understand more and more why my (Scandinavian) colleagues insist that shared parental leave is the way forward. Most of them had the first 6 months at home with the baby, their DH/partner the next six months. I can't say for certain their division of labour is completely equal, but my impression is that it means women are less likely to become the default person who deals with anything child/domestic sphere related.

2 sugars

Yes dear. Would you like a tea with that?

Can I just say what a fantastic thread this is with thought provoking contributions - I agree with almost everything to a certain degree.

I'm in a relationship with someone who is always happy to help, will do anything I ask house wise (the task is often built up for days), but absolutely everything sits in ky head space my and thats why i am considering leaving as I dont want to resent him if we have children, however id like to have children so im considering staying as I'm over 35. I worry for him if I left as I don't think he can look after himself

Disappointing thread already.
Why are a lot of men slackers?
First answer out the gate is to blame a woman
”It's a hundred percent because their mothers…..”

Jaysus! Gonna keep reading and hope it gets better

Yep, why not...does that bother you? If so why? Are you all about work...I mean on your last day in gods green earth are you going to say "gee I wish I spent more time in work"?

While I don't disagree at all with the posters saying mat leave is part of the problem in that it encourages the paradigm that the children (and house) are the woman's responsibility while the man earns the money, what could we do to change this? I don't think anyone would want to see maternity provisions for women reduced to find some kind of scheme to encourage men to take parental leave, obviously women do need time off to recover physically from pregnancy and birth plus establishing breastfeeding etc. but if we want men to be equal partners surely they should share the career and financial impact of time off work too? We've had shared parental leave by statute now for maybe 10 years now and it still doesn't seem very popular or well used (I work in HR for a large organization that pays enhanced pay to both women on maternity leave and men/female partners of someone who's given birth (sorry not sure correct terminology!) on shared parental leave, and it's still really noteworthy to see a man taking advantage of any more than the 'basic' 2 weeks off, sometimes tacking on some holiday).

For that matter I remember a thread on here a while back started by a new mum feeling wobbly about going back to work and leaving her 9 month old little one. It would have been wholly unremarkable had she not added in answer to questions that the baby was going to be ok because they'd be being looked after at home by her partner/baby's very hands on father who was taking 3 months shared parental leave. Well, the outrage that followed. There were cries of abuse, people saying there was no way a father could possibly safely look after a 9 month old all day with its mother at work, calls to LTB for 'stealing' her maternity leave, people amazed such a thing was allowed in the UK etc etc. obviously not everyone thinks that way but how are we supposed to progress towards equality if that's the attitude still out there on a relatively liberal progressive thinking parenting site?

There was no insisting, I had the higher earning potential, but yes as I do now I would run most things... Like I've said I do

And i bet they have embraced going 50/50 on finances. And all too happy to split the bill on dates a la 2024 while acting as if its 1954 when moving in together or kids come along

Dear Lord, post #3 agreed with post #1 that it is mothers’ fault that men are slackers and now we have another blaming women for men’s inaction
”Because women put up with it and enable it.”

And a third
”Men do this because women let them…”

Could it just be because some men can be lazy shits?
Nope, it’s always a woman’s fault. His mother and then his partner/wife.

I’m out with one final message,
Some men are lazy or become lazy because they have always been lazy and they take advantage.

No woman is to blame. No woman enables. No woman lets them.

This is on the lazy men to change.
Similar to angry men. It’s no woman’s fault a man is an angry man. He is sent to anger management therapy.
This is the other side of the same coin.

No it's not.
But you are perpetuating that pattern for your son. He grows up to see mum doing all the crap.

I have been a single parent since my kids (boy then girl) were 7 & 8. I always worked full time and, such jobs as I expected them to do, were done equally. Both learning to cook (Son is the better cook), wash up, sort their own laundry, get their own breakfast. And as they got older, do their own ironing, change their own beds etc.

At 13 my son said. 'X (his friend) can't even make his own sandwiches for school. That's bad isn't it?'

Now in his 40s, is the laziest sod around. Says I neglected him because I made him do age appropriate jobs and thinks that women have it made and men's life is harder. His partner, quite rightly, won't pick up the slack, but (not so rightly), thinks if he won't do it neither will I. They live in a fucking pigsty - or rather cat den. House smells of cats (they go out but used to be indoor cats so have litter trays which are irregularly cleaned. I haven't been there since before lockdown, (they come here and that's fine - they shower and clothes do get washed)

It definitely isn't me that doesn't think he should do his share of the general household maintenance.

It's largely down to expectations. Men still see themselves as the earner and expect the women to manage household stuff. This is often what is role modelled to them in childhood.

But also when women go on maternity leave men get use to the woman being the housewife particularly if the woman earns less or opts to work part time.

I grew up in a deprived area every family I knew housework was 'women s work. '

If I look at my closest friends-

Jane works 30 hours a week, John works 37. John earns double Jane's wage. Jane does all housework/cooking

Lisa works around 50 hours a week as does Dave. Lisa earns about 80k Dave earns about 60k. Lisa does all housework and cooking.

Eve is a sahp to three disabled children. Tim works full time, eve duu it es all housework and cooking

For some reason about 25 years ago it became necessary to reorder the universe.
Hence the 'Great big melting pot' that Gen X had been working on since the 80s was cast aside: society/fashion dictated that;
Women become more feminine; eyelashes, long hair, feigned dimwittery, women wearing full makeup, nail and hair extensions in rubber gloves hand washing the toilet floor being lauded as fabulous housewives and mothers, tradwives; a whole gamut of retrograde bonkers.
Since the 80s/90s when women with careers (not just jobs) became more common there has been a tacit understanding that women do the 'wifework' (home and family management) even though they also have full time roles outside the home.
So, this isn't a new thing. Women have long been the ones who see a job and do it, whereas men do the jobs they are asked to do. It has been enabled for generations and refocussed (disappointingly) in the last 25 years.
OP: it's great that you do your share in your relationship, but it isn't more than should be expected in all relationships. Your rota sounds really useful. Did you build it yourself or did your DW provide the list to build it from? You are doing a better job than most, but are you aware of your DW's 'mother/wife load'?

I feel if responsibility lies anywhere, it's with men. They're the ones that set the example to how to treat a woman and the expectations in relationships. If a boy sees his dad not doing very much that's what he will emulate. Boys want to be like their dads, not their mum.

My partner does all the house work, picks my daughter up from work, does the majority of the cooking, the gardening, researches books the holidays, does his own laundry...

This is mainly because I work slightly longer hours than him but in a much more stressful job but also because he dislikes doing it slightly less than I do!

There's only one of us that does see/care about mess and its not me.

Tbh, I don't really know many couples at all where the woman does the majority/all of everything. For me, it really is one of those, "only on mumsnet," things.

As far as I know, I don’t know any men like this but that isn’t to say there aren’t men like that. The skewed view on MN that it’s “most” or in some bizarre case “all” men are just way off. You’ll obviously get people moaning, rightly so, about men who don’t do enough but on the flip side you won’t get people saying how amazing their DH/P is, it’s just the way things are. It’s the same reason the relationship board is all negative posts.
FWIW when both our kids were born DH and I had the same discussion about how from the birth of their children men are educated that the mum is the “main” parent, eg they’re sent away at times, access is limited in the hospitals etc. Many will, sadly, take this to heart.

Mmmm, the OP, who is a man, had a greater earning potential. I wonder why....

This enabled him to work more and not do his share of domestic duties.

I'm living with two 1950s men. One a husband, the other a son. Dh has quite carefully trained ds, who is 19, not to do housework or help out. I do virtually all the cleaning and chores, but I've now refused to cook every night because I absolutely hate doing it. They're both fairly lazy people. I haven't enabled it, I just became ground down over the years. I like living in a clean house and it broke my heart when I saw how the bathroom became once I stopped using it and left dh to keep it clean. I'm semi retired now so I'm at home a lot more and can spend my time keeping on top of things. The others believe that they're above the grunt work. Ds will probably make a lousy husband if he ever marries. I'm ashamed and upset about it, but I just didn't know how to stop dh letting ds off with things. I'm ND and have depression and I just kind of didn't know what to do. If I die I know the house will go to pot. I love my home and garden and it upsets me to know this. I think most men are entitled and lazy. I'm not a lazy person by nature and I hate filth. Men don't seem to even care if somewhere is dirty.

Women do it like this because the alternative is nothing gets done. Men see themselves as more important. They do the things they want to do, and leave everything up to the women. e.g. man likes gardening, does the gardening and then expects the woman to do all the other shit, because he doesn't want to do it and he's more important.

I earn about 80% more than my kids' dad. I own the house outright. We are not together anymore but he hasn't moved out yet. With the exception of things that HAVE to get done, e.g. pick-up from school, one parent being home when the other is out, he does absolutely nothing for them. NOTHING. Not interested in school, doesn't know their friends' names, teachers' names, birthdays etc. Doesn't know which is the uniform drawer because he's never had to. Doesn't know contact details for doctor, piano teacher, any clubs or afterschool activities. Doesn't have contact details for any friends' parents. Doesn't arrange anything at all, e.g trip to the cinema, the park. He won't even come if I'm arranging and paying for everything, because he can't be bothered if he can just sit at home staring at a screen instead. He doesn't care, and there's no point in trying to make him care, because he just doesn't. No idea why he had kids, except possibly so he didn't have to pay his own way.

Why then do I do everything? Because the alternative is that my kids go without. He won't let them starve, but I don't just want to keep them alive. I want them to have friends, hobbies, do well in school, learn new things etc. I have to do all of that because he won't, and I won't neglect them. Yes, it's awful that they are growing up in a household where these old-fashioned roles are taking place, but unfortunately it's the least worst option. And, to be honest, the world isn't likely to change a huge amount between now and when they have their own kids.

So I suppose the answer is that we let men get away with it because we care about our kids, and we'd rather take care of them and raise them well than leave them to be neglected.

This is a great post

In the end our marriage broke down, he left me for a much younger subordinate from work who he now has a child with and who I bet is willing to do all the chores because that is their work dynamic

Meanwhile I am left with the bulk of everything to do with our first two kids one who has SEN and it’s exhausting!

Men need to have their own use it or lose it paid paternity leave of several months duration. Ideally most of it not at the same time as the mother as I've read about some men on here who do sod all when on paternity leave.

Men who have the option of paid paternity leave rarely take it, or take a week or two. My kids' dad - arse, see above - had the option of up to 6 months paid leave, and didn't take any of it. Presumably because the job he hated was favourable to spending any time with his babies. He just had no concept that the babies or anything to do with babies or children might be anything to do with a man.