Why do a lot of men seem to think it's 1954 not 2024?

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I have been on here for a while and it seems that women seem to be expected to do the bulk of child care, housework, have jobs and manage everything to do with the house from renewing tv licences to employing all trades people.
In real life I know several men like this. They work, have their hobbies, go to the pub, have weekends away with the lads.
Of course I also know men that pull their weight. But child care and housework seems to be women's work.
Why does it get put up with?
Is it because their mothers did everything for them?

Im male but have always discussed and agreed with my wife who does what. Until a couple of years ago I worked 70+ hours a week at this time of year so she did most things. I'm retired now so have a nice cleaning rota, manage her business accounts but still have time to see my mates etc...

I suppose I'm asking aibu for asking why their isn't a fair balance in most partnerships.

I agree with all this.

I also think it's mad that everyone has accepted that the parent on parental leave can manage with less sleep.

The worse thing that happens if you're sleep deprived looking after a baby is the baby dies.

The worst thing that could happen in most jobs is you get fired.

Obviously it's more important for the parent at home to be more well rested. When me and DH split parental leave we always prioritised sleep for the parent looking after the baby (and we both did both roles)

I am that 1950’s housewife type. My husband willing to help though but to be honest i feel bad if he helping me with the house chores and i like my way of cleaning. He still helps with the kids but not as much as me. I feel house chores are my responsibility as i’m not doing anything during the day.

he is working full time and bring a lot to provide me and the kids, meanwhile i’m a SAHM. There is no his money or my money in my family. All money we put it in the joint account and i can take whatever i need and buy whatever i want. But if the woman its working aswell then the man need to help. Its always have to be fair.

@teacherprebaby I agree that not all men are bad. My partner pulls his weight, and so does my father (and always has, according to my Mum). I think that's why I was so surprised- if my 'boomer' generation father can manage it, what excuse do these much younger men have?

Can’t relate to your post. My husband does all of the admin, has for 35 years. He does the cooking, too.

I’ll get my coat ……

Yes
Men can remove their tops and walk around naked on the street a woman does it arrested

I enjoy keeping house.
Which is quite the admission on Mumsnet....

That is very sad 😢

It's really sad that some women also buy into the 19t0s stereotype to some extent because they start doing everything- my dh does more than I do around the house, but we also have no kids and a weekly cleaner- both work full time for similar salaries.

I do the cooking but that's because I like to cook, he cleans up after and does all the washing

Ugh these are the selectively traditional men. When I was single I remember talking to a man in his early 30s like this. Spent all his time in the gym, didn’t have clear career goals and was doing yet another degree while doing part time casual work so wasn’t really the “provider” type .

He didn’t believe women shouldnt work after kids but he was traditional in wanting women to be submissive. He once said he would “help” in the house, but it was clear he seen it as a woman’s responsibility.

OP, I think part of the issue is they’re doing what they seen their parents do and also a lot of men will happily do the bare minimum unless they have women who don’t stand for it. I don’t tolerate it at all which is probably why I’ve never been seriously involved with a guy who expects me to carry the domestic load if we are both working.

I think it speaks to a wider issue in society that men are socialised more to stick sharp elbows out and do what’s best for them,in every situation - while women are raised to be people pleasers who serve others and put their needs last . That is why some misogynist men get so angry at women who choose not to have children and/or stay single.

I have a friend, both her and her partner work similar hours. They have two kids but she does most of the shopping, organises and pays for all presents (they don’t have joint finances) when the kids were younger she sorted the childcare too and she speaks to the school about any issues. She seems to do most of the cleaning too. Her partner does very little except for cooking a couple of times a week . He spends his time playing computer games and smoking weed.

She’s often short on money for things including for the kids while he is spending his money on weed. I have asked why she puts up with it and she doesn’t reallly have an answer so I don’t listen to her complain about it anymore because it’s so boring and pointless tbh if she’s not going to do anything about it.

OP I would add its because other men don't call them out on it. When women do it they’re nags.

I wonder if men don’t ‘judge’ each other on this.

I do too - I take pride in my housewifery skills. I am supported by DH who values the work it takes and contributes equally to the load of running a household. I don’t know if I’d enjoy it if it went unappreciated.

With respect, I expect this is because your circle is fairly middle class/ well educated/ respectable.

My circle is like this too and the culture is that men and women generally share the load, including me and DH, although there's still an inherent gender imbalance when it comes to work and pay with men generally in the higher paid jobs. But most people have awareness of this, at least.

There is however a large proportion of the UK (and the world) where it is absolutely not like this.

The area I grew up, and where most of my family still live, is much more socially deprived, and there are some awful attitudes which persist there about what men and women are like/ what they should do/ how they should behave, etc.

So just because you only know 1 couple like this, doesn't mean that it is not still a huge issue. There are many places in the UK where these views and behaviours are still prevalent.

With respect, I expect this is because your circle is fairly middle class/ well educated/ respectable

yeah I’d say majority of my friends and former partners fit this description which may or may not be why it’s not prevalent in my social circle. Anecdotally the two women I can think who have households like this do not fit this description or at least their male partners don’t.

Some pp are saying they like doing most of the housework - but they are SAHMs??
That is obviously completely different!

I expect a woman or man to do most of the housework and childcare if they're a SAHP , but I assume we are talking about a man who expects his partner to do paid work and come back at say 6pm just like him, but then takes a backseat in domestic duties and enjoys his evening doing hobbies or watching tv while she stays on her feet and gets everything done (cleaning cooking laundry etc) after a hard days at work.

Are you not concerned that your son will then grow up seeing that as normal and do the same to his wife?

Yes, every husband I know is like this and I am frankly rather surprised at the PP's who claim theu don't know anyone like this.

I have lived in countries all over the world and been around couple's from.various socioeconomic backgrounds and cultures...

In my experience all (okay, most) men have some level of expecting their partner's to do the vast majority of the housework and household management.

They either gaslight due to often earning a higher income or they use weaponized incompetence until she learns not to ask him for help.

There is this attitude that "pink jobs" and mothering duties cannot possibly be as tiring as their lives.

This is despite the fact that most often these women were also working part or full time and then coming home and doing everything else.

There is no breaks, it is a 24/7 often thankless role in life and I can see why so many women are choosing not to get married at all.

For many women, being a wife sucks the very life out of you.

Not all relationships are like this, but in my experience most are.

And due to careers and finances being affected due to motherhood or financial abuse or just plain exhaustion, many women can't see how to change things or leave... because these types of men are also quite clever at maintaining subtle (or total) control.

Until a couple of years ago I worked 70+ hours a week

So you were one of these 1954 men and didn't help in the house or with the DCs.

If you HAD helped in the house and with the DCs you would know it is relentless, unrewarding, exhausting and that is why men avoid it.

My partner works full time, he insists that I don't need to work and my job is to take care of the house and the baby and do pretty much anything he asked to do without complaining..very old fashioned, and we aren't even old. We are early 30s.

@Notsogood24 You say partner not husband. Are you married? If not married he’s not so old fashioned when it suits him is he?!

Assuming you live in the UK (I don’t know the law for every country) legally it also puts you in a precarious position if you give up paid work while being unmarried, so I’m hoping you’re actually married or he is taking you for a fool.

Men as a group are inherently selfish and exploitative. And they care less about their children than women do.

They focus on the tasks that bring them material recognition, public praise or enjoyment and leave the rest to someone else. Training for a marathon or putting in the hours on an important work problem - they've got that! Sorting the World Book Day costume - nah.

This would only change if the ball was dropped - for example, the school phoned because their child had no packed lunch or their child was obviously sad or angry because they didn't have a costume. Some men might step up then, especially if inconvenienced. But women care too much about their children to similarly drop the ball and so will usually make up for male inadequacies in parenting.

The thing is - men don't just behave like this in the home but at work too. If they can offload the routine, unglamourous tasks that don't get recognised onto women in the office, then they'll do this. There's a whole body of research about how men/women behave in the office which is fascinating (and mirrors what happens at home tbh).

So men don't just expect women to facilitate them at home, but in the office too.

The decent ones might do some stuff if asked specifically to. But it has to be specific tasks. So that they can then go back to doing things which are important to them.

The saying is "A woman's work is never done" not a man's work. Women are the only group in society who many people think it's ok that they should have absolutely no leisure time.

As to why men have this sense of entitlement, I suspect that it's become ingrained over centuries and goes too deep to be easily challenged, especially when women are socialised to be collaborative and giving.

If I was in charge, men would be forced to report with their young children to mandatory weekend playgroups 4 times a month to give women some time to themselves.

And on the SAHM/working part-time thing, it's a vicious circle.

Often the reason a woman becomes a SAHP or reduces her working hours is because she isn't supported post-DC to continue her job. If you go from a 9-5 job (and many jobs require more than that nowadays) to collecting the kids, doing all the housework, cooking, childcare, homework, kids' activities etc., then you're going to be on your knees. You ask for help, your partner doesn't step up and eventually you go part-time because otherwise you're going to have a mental breakdown. And then all the domestic responsibilities are offloaded onto you.

This could be a valid point. When my DD has DGC she insisted that her husband took a great share of childcare ( except for feeding) She also made sure she was out of the house very regularly leaving DC alone with his dad ( would feed then go out for a couple of hours). And the biggest thing as someone said may have been the maternity leave. She was back at work just before the baby was 5 months- 2 weeks part time then full time.

My son in law can and does do everything necessary for childcare/house keeping. My DGS also has had his whole life seeing that both Mum and Dad go to work, look after him and do house stuff. So that's his " normal" Hopefully carries though when he marries

My DH pulls his weight, not 50 50 every day but some days one of us does more, some days the other. But have observed three ingrained socialised perspectives he has which are different from mine, and which if we didn't name them would result in me doing more. They're also quite good in some ways as I can "be more DH!"

1. "Unless I am required to do something all time is my own". My DH has this wonderful subconscious feeling that life is a series of tasks dotted into his fundamental state of relaxation. He does a lot of tasks! But he has no worry about having a break for a lie down/leaving the kitchen in a mess until later. They're all just tasks. If some are left til later he doesn't care. Doesn't expect me to do them but doesn't care.

1. "A task has to show a positive result". Light bulb gone? Window lock broken? Shopping delivery needs booking? Spillage on the sofa? He's on it in 24 seconds. Done. General endless washing and tidying up,cleaning the floor, sorting the inside of drawers, preventing entropy and sorting the kids clothes so they aren't all too small.... nope, those are low value and you can decide not to do them and it makes no difference as there will always be more mess, so they can be left.

3."My worth to society is judged by my amount of savings in the bank not by my clean house". On it with bills and finances. Not on it with getting up of a weekend and bustling round just making the house nice.

This all adds up to me usually getting to things first, and then being exhausted. Not doing the washing and cleaning up early at the weekend leaves me feeling like there's a load hanging over me. So we are both trying to notice things differently.

My DH and I have been married 25 years and have children all young adults. He does more than his fair share of household chores and all the outdoor and mucky stuff. I do all the cooking but then he’ll clean away. I have probably always had all of the organising and mental stuff with the kids and I think that’s probably part of being a mum. I do most of the decision making in the family.
We both work. My DH is very considerate and probably a bit old fashioned, would never go on a lad’s holiday but would be ok if I wanted to. He opens car doors for me, never walks in front of me etc. This might seem outdated but I’d say we’re very happily married and I feel very respected.

He didn't have kids. Bit presumptuous of you

Really? I live in what I'd say is a fairly progressive area, with the majority of mums working and many of them working as many hours as the dads. Out of 30 kids in the class, my husband is the only man on the Class WhatsApp. He is the only man to have organised a child's birthday party in 3 years. Talking to many parents in the class, he's clearly one of the only if not the only man to know more than the woman in the relationship about school admin. I work in a school and in 10 years can count on one hand the dads who have genuinely been as equally involved in school life as the mums. That cannot be a coincidence; women are doing something that men clearly consider wifework.

YANBU
male entitlement is everywhere