Suitable punishment to cancer slip?

[Nothanksnottoday]

My daughter today has told a friend at school that her dad has cancer.

My daughter doesn't know what cancer is but knows its an illness thats all (they're 7) but has told me (and told the mum when we were chatting one day about this and I was offering help with childcare) that this girl has told her 'my dad has cancer' and got upset at school.

The mum then explained to me and my daughter that she was shocked her daughter said this as she definitely doesn't know what illness he has and they haven't told the kids until he has a proper diagnosis and knows what stage etc it is.

I told my daughter on that basis not to mention it again and even if the girl brings it up just change the subject or not say anything. But today she's gone up to this girl and said something along the lines of 'I'm sorry your dad has cancer' and this upset the girl. The mum has now text me saying she's now properly told the kids about the dad purely because if what my daughter has done and she didn't want to lie to them anymore.

I feel terrible and I'm angry but I know my daughter only knew it in the first place because the other girl mentioned it originally but either way I'm upset and annoyed.

What should I do now? How would you punish your child for this? Should I send flowers or something? I have autism and ADHD so I struggle with this sort of thing. Thanks in advance.

It’s not for not being honest, it’s for doing something that she was explicitly asked not to do. It didn’t slip out, she went up to the other girl and said “Sorry your dad has cancer”.

I assumed she’s copying something she’s heard from an adult? I can’t imagine many of the 7 year olds I know coming out with that.

Kids are sly, especially smart ones! I was that kid who would've (and often did) verbally couched things in a sweet innocent way in order to defy the instructions / satisfy my curiosity etc. It's all part of growing up.

Sounds like your DD brought it up again because she wanted more information, so she could understand better what’s going on.

She went up and said she was sorry the Dad was ill.

I don’t get it sorry. How did your daughter know ?

I think the trouble is intelligence level varies amongst kids! I was definitely that sly faux innocent kid as you put it (and all the adults thought I was innocent and adorable), and so were my siblings! Sometimes we even conspired together to lay it on thick, starting in kindergarten. We're all lawyers now fwiw so the gift of gab came in handy.

I don't think it's an "either or" solution – heavy-handed accusations of being "sly" OR forever batting away concerns by way of "awww sweetheart I know you meant well".

I'd try to ascertain their intentions out of curiosity, and either way I'd be pleased: that my darling child is so sweet and naive, or that they're smart enough to get what they want tactfully! Obviously would also heavily but kindly turn it into a learning opportunity either way – doesn't mean punishment.

Yeah, I was that kid too. Anyone who thinks seven year olds don't play mean social games was probably a very lovely seven year old, but possibly now lacks an accurate understanding of human behaviour. Based on my friends at that age, most of us were well able to dissemble.

Her mum told her not to say any more about it and she went up again and said ‘ sorry your dad has cancer’ She was told not to. No punishment needed but I’d be wondering why she ignored you. You say you have adhd op, is there a position Dd has too? Sometimes chn with adhd find it hard to control impulsive behaviour.

Pushing buttons is the right word! The phrase "plausible deniability" also comes to mind. As a child I was excellent at these 2 things 😂

I think it's fine here though, even if it was done on purpose. The other girl clearly already knew, and if your DD hadn't poked the bear, someone/something else would have.

I'd explain the truth to DD tbh: that the girl's Mummy (not the girl) is sad and doesn't feel ready to talk about it, so when the girl asked about it, the girl's Mummy got upset. Or, the girl's Mummy didn't want the girl to be too sad. Etc... Get her to think of possible reasons with me to work on her empathy and understanding.

I wouldn't approach it as an adults vs kids thing, but try to help DD be empathetic towards the girl's Mum in the human sense. And then cross my fingers and hope she doesn't go telling all of this to the girl in Round 2!

Also, I'd tell my DD she can ask me anything she wants about cancer / the Dad's cancer. It might be tempting to shut her down on this topic completely, but that's just going to redirect her to her classmate...

Exactly.

I'm really not sure why you want your daughter to either lie or hide their emotions or to show empathy. Having worked with children many times who's parent has either been seriously ill or died the whole pretend nothing is happening don't talk about it is wrong and by telling your daughter to keep quiet and don't mention it your not helping either child including bottling up their own emotions should you or someone close get ill. Children's mental health is important talking is important and being able to show empathy.

Children LOVE the drama. They bloody love it. And they absolutely will be a bit "sly" to generate drama. Because they are immature and silly and don't understand that the drama is someone's actual life.

which is why we often keep things from children or keep the information flow to a trickle.

The bit I'm struggling with is that you only know the dad has cancer because YOUR dd heard it from this girl at school? If YOU knew about it and were discussing it and that's why your DD found out, then you are in the wrong because 7 year olds are not capable of keeping this sort of thing to themselves and death and illness is often weirdly fascinating to them.

I don't think punishment is in order. It absolutely is appropriate to have a proper heart to heart with her. One of our jobs as parents is to help our children to be empathetic and to understand the consequences of their actions.

Edited to add: also, while I sympathise with keeping things from children , as per my comment above, trying to hide a serious illness is a bit pointless. Children aren't stupid. They will know Dad is sick. They will have overheard the whispered conversations etc. So the original parent, proibably with good intentions, has made a mistake nonetheless in thinking she could hide things.

I doubt there was anything malicious behind it OP however I do think you are right to pull up DD on this. My DC1 is 6 and I’d expect them to understand this situation and what not to say if I’d explicitly told them not to mention anything. However, it’s also fair to say that kids sometimes just say things because they’re well…kids. We’re all allowed to mess up once but I would perhaps make it clear to DD that if she continues to say anything else about friends dads cancer then there will be a tangible consequence like no tablet.

Please don't encourage DD to do a sorry card. That will very likely be the wrong thing to do and upset the daughter and the mum again. Say you're there for them if needed and leave it OP.

Talk to DD and say she can ask you questions but just be mindful it might go back to the child "mum said cancer is really bad and can kill people". I don't think she needs disciplining but does need a reminder not to do things if you've asked her not do something. Sometimes she won't understand why, but if you tell her not to something, she mustn't.

I agree. I have been a bit uncomfortable reading through this thread with the apparent message that there are things we shouldn’t talk about with friends. The comment to change the subject even if the friend brings it up? Really not sure this is a good message to give a child.

I remember being 7 and my brother dying. I remember my also-7-yo friend popping her head in and out of my bedroom door and chanting his name in order to see if she could get a reaction out of me. She was absolutely deliberately choosing to be a bitch.

OP, I am glad you plan to have a serious talk with your DD about her motivations here.

She doesn't really have much of a choice here? What do you suggest she does then, go to war with the Mum? "MY daughter will talk about YOUR HUSBAND's cancer to YOUR daughter as much as she wants, damn it!"

It's 100% advisable to let DD ask her (OP) about cancer, but probably a stupid idea to actively encourage DD to keep bringing it up with the other girl. If the other girl brings it up first, it's not DD's problem, but DD shouldn't be the one constantly bringing it up. Plus 2 kids blindly speculating about What Cancer Is is just going to make everything worse and scarier.

Empathy and social tact is a really useful life skill: not blind "be kind" mantras, but actually deducing and being aware of others' likely motives/perspectives, even while simultaneously accepting those motives are totally irrational and emotive (i.e. the Mum's). I know, for example, people with excellent hard skills but held back in their lives / careers due to poor soft social skills, because in their mind they're right and that's that.

She’s 7!!!!!! WTF??? And you wanted to “really punish her”. WTF is wrong with you. She’s 7!!!!! She was trying to be kind.

I’m staggered.

I would be annoyed too. I don't think I'd go as far as a punishment but I'd probably say something along the lines of "I'm really annoyed you brought up your friend's dad being poorly with her. I told you not to. It is a very upsetting situation for their family."

Why are you angry? She showed empathy and she is 7!! Do not punish her.

If you want to take the wind out of your dds sails I would actually tell her it was a very nice thing to do and praise her for doing it.

I would then explain that although her friend knew about her dad, friends mother thought she didn’t know so it has been a bit of a shock to her that not only did her dd know about his illness but other people knew as well and they don’t have all the information about the illness yet so going forward don’t say a word to friend about her dad until the mother feels ready to let her dd talk about it and don’t say a word about it to anyone else as that would be a mean and nasty thing to do.

In the meantime, have you looked at getting your dd assessed for ADHD as well as this sounds like such an ADHD thing to do. It’s not being sly, it’s just not being able to hold things in
I know even as an adult I either can’t keep a secret or I completely forget the secret. Usually I end up not speaking to people because I know if I relax I will say something I shouldn’t

@HalebiHabibti I'm so sorry that is awful.

So this is kind of what I just did. I sat down with her and said ok tell me about today did you speak to X? And she said oh yes she was upset. Basically explained that they were all in the toilets and another girl said 'X's dad is in the hospital' and another girl said 'why' and my daughter whispered to her 'he's got cancer' and this girl then said "OH CANCER THATS SAD" and X overheard and was upset.

My daughter felt bad but didn't want to say anything to anyone in case she got told off because she knew I'd told her not to say anything about the C word because The mum had said X didn't know.

Anyway a bit after that my daughter found X crying in the classroom corner and got a teacher and explained what happened so I'm happy she did something to try and sort out the upset she'd caused (also happy it wasn't intentional she just couldn't keep the secret basically)

I've explained to her how it's effected X's family this evening and she's understood and said she won't do it again now she fully understands. I'm happy with that and we had a nice cuddle and I hope that's put it to bed.

As mostly everyone has said, your daughter was being honest and showing compassion. She doesn’t need punishing but praising in my opinion. As people have said before, this has come from adults speaking about the subject around their children, which happens, it’s no one’s fault. Just explain to her how that she can still care for her friend and be kind and that’s what’s important.