It's an in law one...

[inlawproblems]

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

"PIL provide free childcare. They could point out that they do a lot for BIL and SIL and so all they are asking is that BIL and SIL do one thing for them, grow the fuck up and apologise."

Sorry but this is a nuts suggestion. In the same way they shouldn't be strong arming you in to a position, the idea that they'd bully the other couple in to go getting your way would be deplorable, and the apology would mean fuck all.

Their adult offspring are on the outs and they're leaving them to resolve it, while it seems giving a certain amount of opinion without trying to force anyone's hand, that's as it should be.

As for "if we show up, they've won", that's a bit of a skewed way of looking at it. It's an event that you've both been invited to on somewhat neutral territory, it should be a bit of a draw (football in no man's land and all that) where both can attend, act somewhat civilly and then resume the bitter war of attrition.

No doubt they've been cunts, but what are you going to do for the in laws silver wedding anniversary or neutral BILs 50th etc, tell them they have to pick between you and the other side, then it's you who looks nuts and is trying to win.

Go or don't, but don't say you're attendance is conditional on someone forcing an apology out of another person.
If you do go, grey rock or ignore in civil manner, if they want To pick a fight then have it and call out bad behaviour.

They’ve been ridiculous, but honestly you’re making yourself just as bad with this pettiness. Just show up and take the moral high road. Worrying about who has “won” is ridiculous.

So you didn’t even ask what the problem was for six months? Really?

They had known each other about five minutes when they got married and even then there were some early warning signs which we put down to wedding stress. She kicked off when my other BIL got engaged to his now wife a few weeks before their wedding and said that other BIL should have waited until after their wedding was out of the way before proposing. I'd understand her being upset if he'd proposed in the middle of their wedding reception but it was about 3 weeks beforehand and they were very discreet about it. We thought that was weird and mean but we thought she must just be stressed about her wedding.

She has remained silent, hiding behind her husband and presumably instructing him to reject every olive branch.

The internalised misogyny is strong in this one.

I think the name means more to them than you realise. Whilst you aren't bothered they clearly are. Did you acknowledge it in any way at the time?

No one owns a name but it would have been odd for you not to say something.

I have two nieces with the same name (different sides of the family) and even second born nieces mum commented on birth that it was the same and my kids will have two cousins with the same name. Neither side cares but if you didn't address it, you could have come across badly.

Maybe she is a crazy bitch. In which case a one off apology means fuck all from her.

Really let it go.

It wasn't immediately obvious because we did see BIL from time to time and he never said anything was wrong. He briefly popped in with his kids to meet our baby when she was about a month old, but every time we invited them to do something together as a family they fobbed us off with some excuse. We thought it was weird but we had a lot on our plate with a newborn and a toddler and my husband starting a new job so they weren't really at the forefront of our minds. And then after three months we heard via PIL that their daughter had some health problems and needed an operation, so we thought maybe they were just not in the right head space to see us and needed some space. But yeah, by 6 months it was very obviously weird and so my husband had to broach the subject directly. Actually a couple of weeks before that I saw him at the playground and I said something like, "Isn't it crazy that DD is nearly 6 months old and SIL still hasn't met her yet? We must get together before everyone goes on summer holidays", and he said they'd check their diaries and let us know.

They probably don't want to go either.

Just don't respond, it's only cake. Ignore it completely.

Your original post says 'everyone thinks they are completely rediculous' , that's all you need to know. Go with your head held high.

We had no idea they were upset until they'd already given us 6 months of silent treatment. Then after my husband told me what the issue was I contacted BIL several times saying I was really upset by the situation and wanted to talk and understand his point of view and asked if we could meet and he just ignored my messages.

I think ignoring the message would be worse than just saying we aren't going.

I think it’s natural that they are trying to build bridges between their family members and create conditions for a rapprochement.

Every family has disagreements. In the grand scheme of things, the issues mentioned seem fairly small.

You had a good relationship before. Could you open your heart to the idea of forgiving them? To allow a thawing in the relationship by turning up to family events together?

"She kicked off when my other BIL got engaged to his now wife a few weeks before their wedding and said that other BIL should have waited until after their wedding was out of the way before proposing"

That is a bit of a cunts trick tbf, I wouldn't kick off but I'd be seething 😂😂

I'd get dh to message pil and say you are concerned there will be an atmosphere as sil and bil haven't resolved their issues. So you will miss the cake but see pil and other bil on Sunday as planned.

How is it worse?

Your PILs know the situation and so are actually stirring it up and making trouble which is best ignored.

Going through something very similar although it's over more than a name. It's ruined our relationship with PILs and has affected my children's relationship with their grandparents. Iv accepted it wont improve because there is unwillingness on all parts. It is what it is, my focus is now on my family and supporting my husband through this pretty awful time.

I am more than willing to forgive them but they aren't asking for forgiveness, are they?

I'm the one that's been doing all the work to try and work towards a reconciliation over the last year and they just don't want to know.

PIL invited us all over to celebrate nephew's birthday in March and said they really wanted to see all their grandchildren together. We stupidly thought it was an olive branch and we would be able to clear the air and put this behind us, so we left work early, picked our kids up from nursery, went round there, and BIL and SIL didn't even show. It was the four of us, my PIL and their two kids, and a birthday cake.

Exactly, they are unlikely to go, just ignore the whole thing and enjoy the Sunday.

Sorry if I've missed it but what is the age difference between the kids? And does the name have any particular significance to sil?

Your use of language is interesting here when you talk about them "winning" by you all just moving on. It's like you're trying to turn it into a competition for vindication that doesn't really serve anyone. Tbh it sounds like at the moment you all lose. You say there's no real back story but you're saying they're poisoning their kids against you? What is making you say that when you've not spoken for 18 mths?

I do think it's unfair to put pil in a situation where they can't spend time with all their children and grandchildren at the same time because you need to feel like you've 'won' and can't just let this go. Obviously sil is in the wrong here because noone owns a name but I think you're now choosing to drag this on, also involving your pil and putting them in awkward situations so you're kind of in the wrong now too. Why shouldn't your pil host an event and invite everyone they care about? If you choose not to go that's up to you but I think you should be putting THEM first especially if you don't think sil is going to kick off. There's bigger things in life to worry about and if it were me in your shoes I'd go, be civil and hold my head high and move on for the sake of the kids and pil and retaining family relationships. You don't need to see them outside of that if you don't want to.

Why?

Their kids are 4, 2 and newborn and ours are 3 and 1, so close in age.

We know they've been poisoning their kids against us because we literally heard it from their (then 3 year old) kid's mouth.

Well, you can either keep cycling through the stalemate drama - and there is a certain energy in believing yourself to be right and someone else wrong.

Or you can resolve it in a way which suits you. That means stuff you can do, not stuff you demand others do - no-one can control what anyone else does. So you can't resolve this by demanding they apologise.

Imagine that your SIL remains 'nuts' and your BIL 'a fool' forever. Imagine that never changing. Shift your focus to the kind of dynamic you want your family to have with your extended in-law family. It might be helpful to think what relationship you hope your DC and DH will have with PIL and nice BIL/SIL.

Once you have that clear, act into it.

If you want a friendly, relaxed tribe, say yay, cake, Grandma, and go along on Sat and every other occasion to have a great time, not paying much attention to any standoffish participants. Invite nuts BIL/SIL but don't expect or care if they don't show up.

If you want to rebuild bridges and be the bigger person, send them a bouquet and card saying you had no idea the name would upset them, you're so sorry that it has, it's a beautiful name and you'd love the cousins to grow up with this as a special bond between them. This will only work if you genuinely are able to accept their upset without feeling defensive. She might not want to move on and that's on her, do what you want.

Or, if you only want a reln with the non-nuts ones, simply decline invitations which include them, although encourage your DH and kids to go for the sake of the original family unit and his relationship with his DB.

That's it. Choose the outcome you want within the options you have, and behave accordingly.

I think where we are now is that we just want to leave them to it and have a relationship with the non nuts ones. It's not a question of me staying at home while DH takes the kids because he doesn't want to go either.

I think the bouquet idea is crazy (sorry!) but I did write a very long and heartfelt letter to my BIL back in February, where I explained that we didn't choose the name to upset them, we had literally no idea that it might upset them, and explained how we came to our decision to use that name (because he really did seem to be implying that we made a last minute decision to steal his daughter's middle name just to piss them off). It took me most of the weekend to write, because I am an immigrant in this country and had to write it in his language, not mine. He never acknowledged it.

Why did you use the same name though?! I know it’s only a middle name to your niece but it is a strange thing to do