I can't really go back to work with H attitude

[icantfuckingwin]

Two kids- 4 and 2.

H trying to build an empire and make it big. Self employed business. Requires A LOT of hours out of the house. I do not wish to disclose the type of business it is. But it's not work from home.

He leaves at 6 and comes back at 8:30-9 pm. The commute is around 1:15-1:30 minutes.

He's been putting a lot into it for many years and is on the brink of a possible investment, let's say. To enlarge business.

I've also had quite a successful career. I went back to work after both babies. I also manage everything home related, as I've always worked from home, there was just more time for me to do it.

For the last year I held a senior position, on a pretty big salary. Not humble bragging. But I suffered from absolute burn out. I could no longer maintain everything. I was doing all night wakings, all mornings, all drop offs and all pick ups, plus dinner time and bed time alone. My kids school is also an hour round trip because of traffic. I did have the help of a cleaner and spent money on convenience foods and take aways too often, but was really trying to just get through the days somehow. We had a nanny for a while before my youngest went to nursery and she'd fill in if I had work trips abroad etc. anyway my H all the while always complaining how much money we spent on outsourcing and making me feel guilty about it.

So we recently started discussing my return to work and what was going to change. To which he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning. This is because I suggested we have a housekeeper a few times a week, rather than a cleaner once a week, to make things easier on me. He said I never think about the finances and only about getting more and more help in.

This was part of the reason I left my job too, as I was made to feel guilty for needing help.

He essentially wants a wife who works full time on a big salary and takes care of all the home and childcare stuff with no help ( aside from nursery ) while he goes off to build his empire.

And I know what he'll say, he'll say I never supported him and he did it all alone. He already thinks that. Because I couldn't handle ' my lot '. When I was working and caused him a headache by complaining about it all.

I am sad but I don't think I can go back to work under these circumstances. He still does not get it and he'll begrudge the money we will need to speak to pick up his side of the equation.

It sounds like he only sees the kids at the weekend based on the working hours. How is he with the kids? Is he present and engaged?
As you are both high earners, money is not actually the issue.
He is gaslighting you and from reading your posts it’s clear that you are shouldering everything with zero support from him.
How was the relationship before the business?

In your shoes, I'd be tempted to tell him that I'd got a weekend job and be out of the house from 6am to 9pm on weekends while he juggles everything.

If he doesn't do his half of parenting then he needs to pay to outsource his half not you. Why do you put up with this absolute crap from him. What a bad role model he is for your DC who will grow up thinking Mum has to do everything because Dad is never here.

He is a TWAT.

I say this as a woman working full time and bringing in what many would consider a 'big' salary (not millions):

Your husband either:

1. is mindlessly taking as read that the work that goes into maintaining a home and raising children doesn't really exist and isn't really work - and has failed to apply his mind to the reality; or
2. he knows full well that it is an additional shared responsibility (in which he is not partaking at all) but it suits him to gaslight you into believing it's not because it prevents him having to a) damage his own ego by acknowledging that you are doing your share of it, his share of it AND holding down a full time job while he just... does a job (twat); b) show you any gratitude (twat); c) acknowledge the reality of your needs as a human being for physical rest and emotional support (twat); and d) spend money to compensate his being unwilling or unable to fulfil his side of the responsibilities at home - he's going to present you with anger and scorn to cow you into doing his work for free instead (twat).

I don't think it's 1. because that could be sorted with 10 minutes of actual thought. It goes like this: If icantfuckingwin died, I would have to pay someone to a) take care of my children around the clock, b) clean my house, c) cook my meals, d) take care of my home, life and child admin (making appointments, tracking and paying bills, replacing child clothes, booking activities, buying birthday presents, etc. etc. etc.); e) do my washing; f) deal with ad hoc life and house emergencies and maintenance and so on and so on. The cost of that would be [X] (at least one person's full time salary as a nanny, PA, housekeeper - probably more than one as it would be very rare, if not unheard of, for a nanny to take on that full scale of duties). If I failed to pay for that, I would either be found guilty of child neglect or abandonment very quickly as I fucked off to my job and left children to fend for themselves; if I failed to pay for some of it my life and that of my children would be significantly worse in the short-term and quickly spiral out of control in the medium-term. OR I would have to giving step up and perform my responsibilities on top of my big job which, I know full well, I would not be able to do without burning out and making my life very difficult (that's why I avoid it now). OR I would have to give up my business. Holy fuck, although I'm trying to turbo-charge finances for the benefit of my family [we're making some very generous assumptions about his motivation, here, icantfuckingwin], icantfuckingwin is pulling a fuck-ton of my extra weight while I try to do it. Imagine if I had to do that on top of a job..........Jesus, let's hire some more help. OR if icantfuckingwin is better off giving up her job to support my endeavours, I must remember to show her lots of gratitude and to make her pension and NI contributions, and - in either case - that half of my business belongs to her and that none of this would be possible without her.

Assuming that your husband is not actually intellectually disabled, he is perfectly capable of these simple deductions. But it suits him not to make them. He is perfectly happy to watch you suffer physically and emotionally if it saves him some money and any sort of humility.

Did I mention that he is a twat?

My children’s school is also an hour round trip. 10 hours per week. Plus I do around 15 hours per week housework/laundry (big house, large family, pets). Plus I take my kids to after school sports, dance, do homework with them, another 5 hours roughly per week. So we are already at 30 hours work before any paid employment. I therefore only do paid work for 10 hours per week. My husband has the big career and long hours however he values and appreciates everything I do, he pays into a private pension and ISA savings account in my name every month. When he is home he is a hands on dad, loads the dishwasher, hangs the washing on the line, walks the dogs etc. We are an equal partnership and both value the work that the other does for our family team.

Being a SAHM only works if you have a husband who appreciates your sacrifice and makes sure that you are financially secure now and in the future.

Your husband does not fall into this category. He thinks housework and childcare are women’s work. And that you should be able to work full time and also do everything else single handedly. Do not give up your job under any circumstance. You cannot be a SAHM with this kind of man, you would put yourself in such danger if the marriage fails.

It may cost now, but children grow up and your career will continue to develop. You are investing in your future and he is being self centered and controlling.

Oh, and you can tell him from me that plenty of people in the workplace (including investors) actively note and silently judge attitudes like his to the point that it could well affect his business without his being aware of it.

An inability to spot and acknowledge the crucial, easily overlooked support structures needed for any enterprise to work is a huge red flag (as well as making him simply an unlikeable person with whom people simply don't want to work). I've seen it happen. The Big Men don't really understand the cause, or the veiled feedback given to them about it, and are angry and confused.

Wow. I could categorically not respect a man who treated me like this.

I was a sahm for a time period but when I set up my own business Dh arranged cleaners himself. Didn’t even consult me. His view is you’re not around to do it I’m not doing it we pay someone else to do it. Its not a difficult concept.

he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning.

First things first, it doesn't matter if it costs more than the sum of your salary or not: the essential bills e.g. mortgage and childcare are family bills that you are both responsible for, regardless of whose salary pays for it.

The family admin is something he needs to come up with a solution for. Is he paying half or is he doing half?

If he doesnt want to do either I'd leave him and let him do his own house work and so it is clear to both him and the kids how little he is invested in being a dad. He obviously has no intention of seeing them. At least single you'd have your own way and none of his stress. I know i sound flippant but why make your own life harder and for how long woth a man that won't support you in any way because that's what this is all about. He doesn't care about you wanting to work or that it matters to you to have a nice home to raise your kids and time to spend woth them while still feeling like a person in your own right. He cares nothing to make your life easier in any way, its all him himnhim, even with kids he is still his own No1.

Go back to work, hire in all the help you need to make it possible.

Divorce your arsehole husband.

So he makes loads of money.
And you make loads of money.

This isn’t a money thing then.

It’s a control thing. He currently controls you heavily by forcing you to do everything, however the outside help weakens his control and he resents that.

And I’ll assume that if he gets this investment it will mean even more money and work, and there will be another difficult goal after that, and so on forever until you’re both retirement age.

How much do his children see him? Is he active with them in his downtime? Because if not, what is the actual point of all this.

Of course he does. Don't let him get away with it. If he gets angry, get angrier. Go back to work and stop doing anything for him. Let him do his own fucking laundry, cooking, etc. If he won't respect you or your career and your time, stop respecting his.

Does he work 7 days?

If not id suggest that an alternative option would be that you work on his days off. Go out of the house for the same hours he is doing. He does all childcare, cleaning, cooking etc and you swan back in after bedtime to everything done.

If he does that 2 days, it leaves you two days free in the week so you’re less stressed and don’t need to outsource as much help.

I reckon he’ll last max 2 weeks before he realises that your solution is better…

Reframe it in your mind. The children, house and help are a family cost, not YOUR cost. They are what is needed to keep all the plates spinning. Even if you quit work you'd need some kind of help. He is being totally unreasonable and doesn't understand what effort it takes to raise children and keep a house and work full time. Would like to see him try it!! Why is he trying to cut these costs - you seem to be able to afford them, so in fact it's that he is judging you and your ability to (not) do everything. Well he can eff right off. It is all family money and he needs to get with the programme.

Your kids are very little OP and life really does get an awful lot easier once they've gone to school - I'd hang fire, decide what you want to do next/retrain and make sure that you're all systems go for when that time comes. If you were burning out, it's not worth it.

But his attitude stinks.

Neither of us makes millions though.

We want to send our kids to private schools, we have a really nice house, nice cars etc. we also want to invest money on the side etc.

We live in a very expensive area.

So basically yes, we are doing well, but we also have the lifestyle that comes with that.

My salary previously more than covered the help we got, however I did take a lot of short cuts and wasted a lot of money on food shopping for example and take aways. Just through sheer exhaustion. I don't do that now, as I just have more time because I'm not working.

When I go back to work, I want to take a less intense role, so the salary will be less too at the beginning. But I'm willing to do that. My salary will still cover the extra costs.

His point is more like, if we work so fucking hard- we need to put some money to the side, so we have something to show for it. But yeah it doesn't stack up right now.

I don't want to give up my career long term. I also don't want to completely burn out though.

But you can’t do it all. You can’t work FT and do all of the stuff that a SAHM would do, without complete burnout. You may need to accept that if you’re working FT, you hire in someone to do those tasks—cleaning, ironing, etc. Same for food…shortcuts because you work FT. That’s okay. It’s unreasonable to expect to save all of that money, when some of it will need to be used for ‘support’. But as you say, even with external support, you still come out ahead.

This man does not respect you nor the work and domestic labour you literally burned yourself out doing. Don’t put yourself in a vulnerable position. Retain your career, earning potential and ability to live independently.

He sounds like the kind of person that when the kids are old enough not to need a mum at home and ferrying them, he’ll start looking elsewhere for someone who really appreciates him and his hard work, takes care of themselves etc - completely blind to the fact he prevented you doing that.

This isn’t someone who looks at you with care and love and thinks “this is my wife, how can I help her?”.

I don’t think the relationship has legs so no way should you stop earning and contributing to your pension and burning yourself out.

Does it ? I feel like it's going to get harder for a bit in a way, as my oldest is starting reception this year and there is so much school stuff to keep on top of, as well as making sure I put in time to help with homework and that kind of stuff.

You need to go back to work. You need a nanny who is prepared to cook and clean in the short term. The kids won't be little for long. Once they are both in school full time your costs will reduce.

If you stay at home your career will be fucked. He'll have his empire and you'll be deskilling. Trust me, I've been home for 5 years, I have no current training or work experience. I was great at my job but now have no confidence at all.

When I've talked about going back to work my H talks about all the barriers. If I work weekends we won't have family time. I can't work evenings because he doesn't know when he'll get home. If in work in the day what will happen on school holidays. My choice is to work in a school and I don't have the patience or the inclination. I stopped working when I had the babies with a view that I would go back. Now his career is the families only income and I need to suck it up.

The other thing is irrespective of how much you support him because he's self employed if the relationship ends he could hid his income and assets so you get very little.

I think I remember you original post. Was you spending a lot of money on deliveroo? You had a lot of good advice on that post.

What an arse! He totally minimises the weight of carrying the house, the kids, a full time job. He has the easy option presently.

My oldest is currently in reception. Homework wise she does about 10 mins a day. It's normally reading or letter formation. Has the school got wrap around care? My school does and it runs 7.30 - 5.45.

He is being completely unfair. Any costs such as housekeeper/cleaner should come out of both your salaries. Not yours.

His lifestyle is incompatible with being a parent or a partner. His work-life balance is totally off.

Why does he think you are responsible for looking after the house and the dc, AND working? If that's so easy, why doesn't HE do it?

And although he may make a lot of money in his job, if you break it down to an hourly rate, it will be low because of the number of hours he spends there.

You should not have to burn yourself or doing it all just because you have a stupid, selfish man baby of a husband.

If you divorced, he'd have to look after the dc at least some of the time...

@Greatmate yes they do have wrap around care. Thank you for the insight. How has the year been in general ? I'm nervous about it. Really want it to go well.