I can't really go back to work with H attitude

[icantfuckingwin]

Two kids- 4 and 2.

H trying to build an empire and make it big. Self employed business. Requires A LOT of hours out of the house. I do not wish to disclose the type of business it is. But it's not work from home.

He leaves at 6 and comes back at 8:30-9 pm. The commute is around 1:15-1:30 minutes.

He's been putting a lot into it for many years and is on the brink of a possible investment, let's say. To enlarge business.

I've also had quite a successful career. I went back to work after both babies. I also manage everything home related, as I've always worked from home, there was just more time for me to do it.

For the last year I held a senior position, on a pretty big salary. Not humble bragging. But I suffered from absolute burn out. I could no longer maintain everything. I was doing all night wakings, all mornings, all drop offs and all pick ups, plus dinner time and bed time alone. My kids school is also an hour round trip because of traffic. I did have the help of a cleaner and spent money on convenience foods and take aways too often, but was really trying to just get through the days somehow. We had a nanny for a while before my youngest went to nursery and she'd fill in if I had work trips abroad etc. anyway my H all the while always complaining how much money we spent on outsourcing and making me feel guilty about it.

So we recently started discussing my return to work and what was going to change. To which he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning. This is because I suggested we have a housekeeper a few times a week, rather than a cleaner once a week, to make things easier on me. He said I never think about the finances and only about getting more and more help in.

This was part of the reason I left my job too, as I was made to feel guilty for needing help.

He essentially wants a wife who works full time on a big salary and takes care of all the home and childcare stuff with no help ( aside from nursery ) while he goes off to build his empire.

And I know what he'll say, he'll say I never supported him and he did it all alone. He already thinks that. Because I couldn't handle ' my lot '. When I was working and caused him a headache by complaining about it all.

I am sad but I don't think I can go back to work under these circumstances. He still does not get it and he'll begrudge the money we will need to speak to pick up his side of the equation.

He would be on the search for another wife. I would leave it to him having the kids 7/7. Goodbye.

You're married to a cunt, that much is obvious. Question is what next.
You seem focused on how you can make this work around his insane expectations, rather than if it's worth tying yourself in knots to facilitate someone who doesn't seem to give a shit about you or the kids.
If I was in your shoes I'd prioritise getting back to work, buying in whatever helps is needed to cover his deficiencies - because it's not help 'for you', it's filling the responsibilities that he isn't doing - and thinking about if I wanted a future with someone who clearly doesn't care about me at all.
You sound like an intelligent, capable woman who is more than able to flourish without this jerk.

Have you asked him if he has to be fully present for the kids 50% of the time how would he handle that? work less? Outsource? Cause that’s what he has to do.
make it clear it’s his deficiencies and lack of parenting, etc you’re covering for.

He sounds like a selfish, self-centered, misogynist. Get whatever help you need and tell him where he can shove his opinions.

Go back to work, outsouce as much as you can. Your husband is a misogynistic jerk who doesn't respect you or value your time.

He’s abusive. This is classic gaslighting. Get your ducks in a row and plan your departure. You are worth so much more than this.💐

Your DH sounds frightful.
I don't usually say this but leave him.

The children are 50% his responsibility and so is the house. If you agree to do more because he works more, he should be paying more (and ideally not kvetching about it - but certainly not blaming you more than he holds himself responsible!)

Please consider that one of you staying home with the children, even with help, while the other works full time or more means the person staying home is taking a huge, huge hit in terms of future earnings and employability (believe me - people don't want to believe how severe it is but it is, and you don't fully know it until it's too late). He seems to be assuming that's OK with you because he'll pay for stuff, but (1) at this level of unpleasantness you may not wish to stay with him and (2) he's not treating you as an equal partner, or even as someone he respects - which is a really bad sign for your future as a couple. And (3) even in the most harmonious relationships where everything's fairly discussed and agreed upon: shared household chores can be handled however both partners agree, but parenting is for both parents to do.

Divorce might be worth more than you’re getting though…

To which he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning.

Tell him all that money is to outsource HIS half of stuff since realistically you'll still be covering yours. Please don't think of giving in to his dinosaur attitudes - you want to be in a position to get out if the relationship goes belly up.

It's worth you working to build up a decent pension in your own right.

It's worth you working if you actually enjoy your career and you want to work and progress.

It's worth you working so that you can support yourself and DC should you separate.

It's not worth you not working primarily for the reason that he expects you to cover his half of childcare, cooking, laundry, cleaning and life admin.

The situation is that you're going back to work and the household will employ a nanny/housekeeper. You working and doing everything at home is not an option.

This is exactly the type of man you don't want to be financially dependent on. He places no value on you as his wife, and chances are he places no value on women in general.

NAIL MEETS HEAD!

Be very careful op.

Go back to work. But don't accept your punishment - which is that all things domestic fall on you.

Plus he doesn't unilaterally get to decide that you are to stay at home and look after house and DC.

He's obviously expecting to be able to continue to work after having DC while some of things at home are taken care of by someone else. The same should be available to you if that's what you want.

And if the 'someone else' doing some of what's needed at home is not him then help needs to be bought in.

If you dropped off the face of the earth, his empire building activities would be severely curtailed, unless he paid people like housekeepers, nannies, taxis, gardeners etc to manage all that you do. Maybe cost it up for him and then tell him he either does his share of the domestic chores or he pays someone to do them so you can both go out to work.

It's true that when the kids are young it can feel like you're working for almost nothing in terms of income but you are investing in future career development and a higher income, more of which will stay in your pocket as the kids get older and childcare costs decrease.

He sounds like a bit of a bully tbh.

The point is that she doesn't lose her career progression, pension contributions and chance of promotion.

And also if they split for any reason she has no income if no job.

The thing is though, he is outsourcing. He has outsourced his half of the parenting to you, and simultaneously expects to control how you do it.

Fuck that! He is talking shit, and needs to be told so. Like who the fuck does he think he is. He expects you to compromise your earning capacity, pension and financial stability because he says so. That would be a very very hard No from me. Well it would now, given that I learned the hard way, so have the benefit of my experience.

Shut the discussion down with him, and open it up in front of other people where he can experience their reaction.
Like if you were to show him this thread I could say “You selfish, self centered, and yet clueless fucker. What you’re asking in unconscionable.”

Honestly, I would stop discussing it and just go straight to hiring.

Don’t give up work. Outsource what you can and tell him he can have an opinion on that once he is able to do 50% of the housework /life admin.

although to be honest even if he did it would seem crazy to me NOT to outsource when you are both earning well even if you could just about manage without what’s the point earning well if not to make your lives easier?

My usually reminder. The work that needs to be covered in terms of home and childcare is joint money, it’s not ops to bear because she’s the female. It’s to be shared out. We don’t decide extensions and home repairs need to come of out the man’s wages do we?

Definitely go back. Once they get over 5, it gets easier I promise. His attitude stinks and he’s the sort who’s also happily leave you high and dry and consider all the income and assets his. If he truly appreciated you, he’s be saying that and bring grateful. You’re vulnerable if you don’t work.

I split when my kids were older. I’d luckily gone back to work fulltime for 6 years before we split and always worked fulltime. It made it much easier

This is exactly the type of situation where, if you give up work, you’re going to seriously regret it later down the line. He WILL hide
money and actually you may find if he gets investment - money will be tighter (as the investors will scrutinise what he’s taken out far more than he will if he’s currently self employed). Growing a business usually means that, at least for a while, personal income goes down, not up.

in purely practical terms - you’ve said school is an hour away. Is there any chance of changing that while they’re still young?

can you also live closer to where he works? (Or can he move his office closer to home). No one (and I mean no one) needs to be out of the house from 6am - 9pm - he’s choosing to be.

It's not your work that you are outsourcing, it's his. Don't give up work, OP. This relationship can't last if he treats you like this so you're better off working.

Ideally when you first go back to work would be a good time to take a break and go and stay somewhere else for a couple of weeks. Don't take the children. Let him handle the outsourcing for a bit.

Whatever you do, don't pay for the outsourcing of his half of the parenting/living work. Time to think about your savings and get yourself into a better position in case nothing changes and you do need to leave.

Be very clear with him. You will still be doing your half of the household upkeep. It will be his half that is being outsourced. If that is more than he can afford, he needs to think about cutting his hours.

I think a nanny/housekeeper three afternoons a week sounds ideal, she can do the housework, laundry etc, collect the children from school, make dinner for them and you. 12-7 three days a week.

How are you currently managing to pick up the kids from school/nursery and work?

How are you going to manage the next time you need to travel?

Do you have the option to go into the office a couple of times a week, that might make it easier, as you absolutely won't be around on those days.

I would do a spreadsheet of everything which needs to be done a day and sit down with him and work out a solution.

For example:

Maintenance house work - 1.5 hour/day (emptying dishwasher, laundry, on tidying around , making dinner and clearing up (make a note of what you do on a daily basis). Your DH for example could get up 30 minutes earlier and empty dishwasher. He could cook some meals at the weekend and put them in the freezer.
Commute - 2 hours/day. He obviously isn't around to help with this.
Night waking - you need to take it in turns, whoever doesn't get up early to do housework gets up.
Afterschool childcare - how do you manage this every day? How many hours. Include bath, bedtime, story etc.

The write down how many hours you need in the day to get your job done properly.

Then you need to make it absolutely clear that he either does his fair share, OR you get help in. Pass it to him to come up with a solution if he doesn't like yours.

OP, the good pet of this is he's telling you in very clear words, EXACTLY what he thinks. My ex thought like him but didn't ever admit it and instead said all the good things, then sabotaged me. So, that's the good part: you know what you're dealing with.

The crux of the issue is that he's CONTENT (at least) for you to give up what you find fulfilling, against your will, to take on his share (50%) of child rearing and household tasks. And worse, he's been content for you to do his child- and home-related work whilst working, to the point you get sick. And he doesn't want you to get help. He's married, but it's not to you, he's married to money.

I would imagine there's a lot more going on than this. When you had burnout, did he drop everything to help you recover? I already am certain I know the answer. You MUST go back to work and take all the help you can get.

And consider your future happiness. Look at all your options. This doesn't mean LTB, but it's also an option.

You need to really understand that you're not responsible for more than 50% of childcare and home running. And draw that line in the sand. Stand your ground with him and demand the respect you deserve as his partner and coparent. Don't ask his permission. Don't feel confused about this but be aware it advantages him if you feel confused... It's simple: you have children together and live together, so 50% of everything is his responsibility. He either steps up and takes his responsibilities or he pays someone else to do it because it's not your job.

If that doesn't work for you, fine, but do not give up your work because however bad you feel now, I guarantee you'll feel worse if you do.

It’s a shame that the support isn’t working both ways in your marriage. My advice would be to go away for a few days, make him pick up the slack and then see his views on outsourcing, I think you may find a rapid change in his thinking. No one can do it all without help. You need to keep your career going, for you. Do whatever you need to make that happen. Good luck OP.