Reform has another seat . 5

[hattie43]

Just that , after a recount number 5 seat has been secured.

Lovelysunshine22
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So you think that the HUGE increase in immigration is not causing any issues at all in the country?

The HUGE (not) increase in immigration is entirely legal and needed if we’ve any hope whatsoever of maintaining our public services.

(desperate) People who arrive here in small boats account for approximately 0.05% of immigrants.

What has caused the problems in the country hitherto has been the government’s failure to keep up with the demand for housing , infrastructure and public services. Thanks mostly to austerity.

I mean you've kinda missed the entire point tbh, but out of interest why do you expect higher standards from the left than the right? Why aren't you demanding that the right stop their vitriol and start listening to the other side?

I'd assume there's more shy tory voters than labour voters because labour voters are more comfortable with their views and are willing to defend them.

I can't remember if I said it on this thread or another but I'm sick of trying to explain why migrants/the poor/the sick/the disabled aren't the root cause of all this nations ills only for it to be completely dismissed because some tosser in a suit shouts a three word slogan.

Just because MN is a bubble doesn’t mean the rest of the country is.

Reform got more votes than Lib dems. If you think you can just ridicule 4 million people, then you learnt nothing from Brexit. Sneering at people’s concern never worked out well.

But, like I say, MN is a leftie bubble detached from reality.

A shame but they’ve underperformed overall.

A party to watch though, plenty of cash and know their target market.

But but but, if your beloved Nigel had become PM he would have to meet with the same King. It'd be alright then though, wouldn't it? Any elected PM meets with the sovereign and you know that of course, it just doesn't fit your stupid agenda to acknowledge it.

The second part of your comment (bilge) is a total non sequitur. Wouldn't expect any more from someone defending the indefensible, really.

I am so sick of ignorant bigots having free flow of commentary, but hey that's freedom and democracy... hopefully in the name of just that, those of us with our heads screwed on correctly will always defend your right to be so grotesque with impunity.

I am sick of the assumption that hostility to the populist right = 'sneering'.

I don't sneer at, or condescend to, the Farages and LePens and Orbans and Trumps of the world. I feel a mixture of extreme fear and extreme anger toward them.

I don't consider populist right-wingers to be my inferiors; I consider them to be my enemies. Often clever and brave enemies; but still enemies. Ordinary Tories are just my opponents, not my enemies. And some people who call themselves left-wing are also populist right-wingers. Galloway is Farage in a mirror.

Anyway, I don't sneer; I fear. And the same goes for many others,

It's human nature to make assumptions about character based on people's actions. Nobody is above that, nor should we be. It's an instinct that protects us from harm.

I'm a fan of PR, but you can't extrapolate as Farage has done here.

People use protest and tactical voting under the current system. They wouldn't do that under PR when they knew their votes actually counted.

It's undeniable that the Reform party is fundamentally bigoted, therefore it follows that it appeals to bigots. That's not an assumption, it's based on fact, and I suspect you know that perfectly well.
I am happy to tolerate and respect harmless differences, but I don't tolerate bigots, because they are not harmless. It's not about having a different point of view, it's about character. People who vote for hateful assholes haven't earned my respect, so they don't get it. I hope that clears it up for you.

funnily enough that description applies to labour - both supporters and many MPs and is deeply embedded

1. racist slurs thrown at Priti, Suella, Rishi for not having the right opinion - “coconuts”
2. treatment of Rosie Duffield and their failure to protect womens rights in all its guises.
3. their determination to have a conversion therapy ban and their adoption of stonewall speak which means that gay children are in danger of believing that being trans is better than being gay because only affirmative support - ie castration and mutilation - will be offered

but of course that is seen as acceptable racism, misogyny and homophobia

You are actually right that was a mistake the death penalty was UKIP. One of their MPs would bring it back https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64580487.amp I appreciate that is not the same as confirming Reform definitely want this at this stage (albeit I believe they would push for this if we were out of the ECHR but I do not have evidence at this stage)

The Reform deputy leader set out the position on women staying at home:

x.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1802785457903661425

David Bull says “parents” but clears up that this means mothers when he says “the majority of mothers would want to stay home if they could” (this is in the manifesto). They want to encourage people to marry (on no discernible evidence that marriage is better for children) and for married mothers to stay at home. He confirms that two working parents is “not a great upbringing”.

He says “if you talk to any mother, of course, they want to spend time with their children. They want to see them grow and develop. And if you're spending all your time at work and you don't have enough time with your kids, I think that's a travesty.”

Read between the lines on that. Why didn’t Reform UK poll fathers on whether they want more time with their children? What kind of a non statement is it that any mother wants to spend time with their children. The implication is that any mother wants to spend time with their children at the expense of their career, which we know is not true. Do working mothers not see their children grow and develop? Don’t fathers want to see their children grow and develop? Why is it a case of mothers “spending all their time at work” or having “enough time with [their] kids]” isn’t the situation more that we as working (male and female) spend some time with our kids and some time at work, not all of one and none of the other.

He then goes on to blame parents (but if you read through the lines, he definitely means mothers) for how children are affected by the perils of social media because those mothers at work instead of being there to counteract what their children see. Horrifyingly suggesting between the lines that working mothers may be to blame for their child having anorexia or bulimia.

I absolutely stand by that Reform UK based on these comments, how they are polling women and what they are extrapolating from that data want women with children to stay at home (other than single mothers, who I suspect they consider to be problematic given they think children should be raised with married parents). Only 16% of Reform UK candidates were female. 100% of their MPs are male. Their leader, chairman and co deputy leaders are all men.

You brand me an ignorant bigot based on what? I'm in Liverpool, we are the only city that stops the far right marches. I was pointing out that misogyny, racism and pedophile excusers are at the top of our food chain, not just "the thick lower classes" as said on here. I'm second generation immigrant on my fathers side and third generation on my grandfather's, non from EU countries. However we have had issues with sexual offences against children were I live, all ignored by the police until violence erupted. Personally I think that girls should be able to go to school and not have male members of staff and male relatives have to turn up to see them safely out. Then the girls targeted needing to go out alone to make videos so someone took notice. One of the most dangerous aspects was that Corbyn brought up the incident during our usual anti fascist/racist rallies and declared it a racist attack. There should be education in the housing that explains our way of life. We should deport criminals etc. You remind me of the time when Cherie Blair stated that most women's first sexual encounter in poorer African countries was a sexual assault as a child and it took black African women contacting the media and agreeing to shut those trying to shout her down. Who are you benefiting if you don't address the issues that are happening? Certainly not the vulnerable women and children from the same communities. I'm active in a lot of communities, especially those from Nigeria and Ghana. I got involved because my background was welfare rights etc.

Have you always lived in the UK @Ponoka7 ? Did you grow up in the UK?

"out of interest why do you expect higher standards from the left than the right? Why aren't you demanding that the right stop their vitriol and start listening to the other side? "

Where did I say that I had higher for the left than the right @Shakeoffyourchains? Wanting higher standards from one set of people doesn't mean I don't want higher standards from the other side too. Jeez, it's like talking to siblings squabbling.. "why do i have to do something of they don't?" Why wouldn't you want higher standards for yourself?

Why am I on this thread "demanding" people on the left stop being abusive to people with different views than them and not "demanding" the same of right wingers? Hmm it's a conundrum isn't it 🤔 perhaps because this is a thread of left wingers abusing people who have different views than them. Why are you so opposed to accountability? Why does it have to keep going back to "what about them"?

If this were a thread of reform voters abusing me for my choice of vote then I'd have the same reaction because I'm not a hypocrite. Now would you be on there defending their right to abuse other people and chastising those who wanted higher standards or are you a hypocrite?

And no @Shakeoffyourchains I didn't miss the point. The arrogance. Yet again you cannot fathom that someone has come up with an opposing view to you so it must be that I didn't get the point. Maybe consider that you missed the point.

Are you familiar with the history of far right populism and what it has lead to in the fairly recent past?

"People who vote for hateful assholes haven't earned my respect, so they don't get it. I hope that clears it up for you."

Who's asking for your respect @XChrome? Who are you? Nobody requires your personal respect, we just ask that you all don't abuse people and don't behave like abusive arseholes yourselves. I hope that clears things up for you.

You are making a load of assumptions. I mean you admitted it in your other posts and you are trying to pretend that it's a basic human instinct to judge how other people vote. You do it, so you apply it to all of us and that's just not the case. There's another assumption. And you're wrong again.

It's not really a new party as it was the Brexit Party and UKIP before that.

A lot of immigrants also work in healthcare so it's not as simple as you're making out.

@Gwenhwyfar

"It's not really a new party as it was the Brexit Party and UKIP before that."

I get that but they weren't reform, what I'm saying is with this quasi new identity they've done scarily well.

I think it's a huge increase in students from India and Nigeria. Apparently they are counted in immigration data, and can stay and work for 2 years after completing their studies.

It's just seen as Farage's party so the people who supported him before still do. They might be disappointed if his EP voting and attendance record continues in Westminster and he pisses off to America to help Trump.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/student-migration-to-the-uk/

Just to be clear, Reform is not a party. It's a private limited company and Farage is CEO. He could never be kicked out - he's the dictator. The other candidates were just allowed to use it as a banner to align under. They are effectively independents.

@swimsong Farage in his speech yesterday said they would democratise but whether they actually do we'll all have to wait and see