Reform has another seat . 5

[hattie43]

Just that , after a recount number 5 seat has been secured.

Ugh. Every time I ask for actual evidence I'm presented with partisan editorialised shite like this, full of one-word quotes devoid of context and explicitly designed to smear people (not Reform itself) who have been denounced and/or deselected anyway.

This is why nobody takes you seriously. Not only do you rely on other people's words to back up your firmware updates opinions, but you don't even realise that by endlessly crying wolf like this and diluting the strength of the word, you're actually making it easier for a truly fascist regime to take hold (and eventually it will, at the rate we're going).

It's honestly pathetic.

Not only are some candidates sinister, it seems as though others don't live in the UK (one lives in Gibraltar) or even exist at all.

Stinks of an “operation” rather than a genuine political movement.

I don't know why you're so desperate to deny the fascist tendencies of Reform when they're there for all to see.

I've circled the in their manifesto (or is it clauses in their contract?) that are particularly insidious and come straight from the fascism 101 playbook, so this is straight from the horses mouth.

If you don't know understand why those circled are tied to fascism, then I'm not sure you understand what fascism is or how it takes hold.

Yes I think it would help because Labour would be seen to be actually doing something. People see the boats coming over, it's in the news, students overstaying on their visas isn't. People are affected by things that they can actually see happening.

To the pp requesting evidence

This is from Reform’s pamphlet contract -

“A Patriotic Curriculum in Primary and Secondary Schools
Any teaching about a period or example of British or European imperialism or slavery must be paired with the teaching of a non-European occurrence of the same to ensure balance. History and social science curriculum to be reviewed and audited regularly to ensure balance. Our children must be taught about their heritage.”

So, essentially it would go something like, “It is estimated that some 35 million were killed during the British occupation of India..,, but anyway… Stalin..,”

Their popularity hasn't really increased since they were UKIP. I saw an interesting thread on Twitter about it. Vote share up by less than 2%, or something like that.

https://x.com/gregianjohnson/status/1809489205560516658?t=VzTnw5w1Y545fEV3dN-u2Q&s=19

Also plenty more, if you search "reform vote share ukip"

They had one of those mock elections at my DD’s state secondary school and the Labour party won it so it’s not the case that across the country young people are engaged with Reform as much as they’d like that! As I posted up the thread, Wednesday night Reform had set up a stall at the local train station that lots of sixth formers use they were questioning the Reform men on their policies and intellectually, politically, morally completely outwitted by a load of 17 year olds, I was waiting for a friend so could here and see all this, I think it is really heartening!

Hear not ‘here’.

I can't see the problem with being patriotic, other countries are. It almost seems fashionable these days to be ashamed to be British which I really can't understand. I'm sure nearly every country has dark times in their history which they're not proud of, but it's like saying that all modern Germans should be ashamed to be German because of Hitler. I just don't get it.

I'm English and proud of it, always have been. I love the UK.

Funny though, didn’t hear Farage or Reform voters campaigning for a change in the electoral system prior to the election, just moaning following the election.

Your point? It doesn't make what i said any less true though does it?

Again, regardless of your politics, you cannot possibly look at that distortion and think yes that feels like a fair and accurate representation of the will of the electorate.

I think FPTP is a better system and PR is more likely to lead to coalition governing which is flawed from the outset as people are not voting for a coalition and it’s compromises, they are voting for a political party and it’s associated agenda.

😆
Nice try, but no sale.
No matter what I posted, you were going to find some lame excuse to dismiss it, because you can't take being shown to be wrong. I suspected that but gave you the benefit of the doubt in order to be fair. You're not an honest or good person, obviously. Pretending to want a real discussion is so gross and trollish.

What you have attempted here is a genetic fallacy; attacking a source instead of disputing the facts provided by the source.
That article contained facts which you can't dispute, so you sprouted chicken feathers and tried a cowardly dodge.
You just can't take being proven full of shit and your fragile ego is wounded. Aw. Poor you.

Nobody takes me seriously? Are you on drugs? You don't even know me. See a psychiatrist FFS and in future, please leave me the fuck alone. I don't want anything to do with insincere, bad faith discussions with dishonest people who have ego problems.

Here's a novel idea - why don't we just see what they say (at least 4 Maidens as I'm not sure if Lee Anderson gets one) and how they vote once Parliament starts.

Then we can see if we need to run for the hills screaming 'the fascist are coming'.

This is what Anderson said in his maiden speech in 2020. Yet he defected to a party which wants to dismantle the NHS.

"my wife—my beautiful wife—went to work for a year. She then went to university, she studied, she became a teacher and she taught for 10 years, until she got to her early 30s, when she could not really carry on any more and gave up work. All that time, our brilliant NHS staff looked after her and kept her alive—I cannot thank them enough—but things got really bad in her mid-30s and she had to go on the list for a double lung transplant. She was on that list for two years, and we had five false alarms before we finally got the call on 19 December 2016. The operation was 14 hours and she spent three days in critical care. I thank my lucky stars for our brilliant NHS. They looked after her, they have kept her alive, and last year she was elected as a Conservative councillor in our home town"

IMO, she just didn't like being wrong about their fascist tendencies, which explains why she was so rude.
Of course they're fascists. There's a veritable mountain of evidence.

Again though, I can see why their manifesto appealled - not that I agreed with it all, or all points appealled to me. Many points, on the face of it, I can see being highly popular.

Understanding why they've had a surprising amount of support really will be key to ensuring other parties stay strong enough to keep them in the minority.

I've learned a lot from many posters who have shared information respectfully, but learned nothing from posters just insulting people.

Insulting people and being baffled helps no one.

Mumsnet advertising made me chuckle with its placement today

Come on now.
What exactly is insidious about ensuring free speech and removing mandatory funding of state media?

Which of those bits you've circled demonstrate "authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology, characterised by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy"?

Let's say we had pure PR and the vote share ended up as it did in this election, we'd likely end up with a coalition government featuring Labour, the Lib Dems and possibly the Greens, where those parties would have to thrash out, among themselves, what their government would look like. Nobody would have voted for that shared platform, but it's what we'd end up with. There's an argument to be made that such a result would be less democratic that the most popular party having a majority.

I do, however, think trying to extrapolate the number of seats each party would have had, under PR, from the results of a FPTP election, is quite dubious. If the electoral system were different, many people would have voted differently.