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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To remind everyone after the celebrations subside to apply the same level of scrutiny to a Labour Govt as was applied to the last Tory administration?

196 replies

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 12:02

As someone who lived through the Blair years it was not a nirvana.

There was a similar amount of cronyism in play, cabinet members who had an odd relationship with the truth (looking at Peter Mandelson here - who was reappointed despite being proven to be very untrustworthy ) and not to mention going to war based upon a document of fiction. Unchecked power, regardless of which party is in charge is never satisfactory.

And at the end of the last Labour reign there was no money left, no bankers held accountable for their stupidity because of Blair’s pandering to the city with ‘light-touch legislation’ (indeed we actually paid them and helped them save themselves) and having handed the keys to the economy to the Bank of England, no gold left because the chancellor had sold it all, and a legacy of funding facilitated by kicking the can down the road for hospitals schools in various guises including PFI. So when there are comments about austerity, the lack of access to benefits including child benefit being limited to 2 children, the closure of sure start centres and a lack of funding for councils we need to remind ourselves how this position of austerity arose - and it is not the sole fault of the Tories as much as we’d love to think. The Tories didn’t introduce tuition fees or open the borders to East Europe - a decision that cost a lot of existing UK skilled workers their jobs. Neither did they stop right to buy or build any significant amount of social housing. Blair left office and promptly became the richest ex-prime minister we’ve ever had and now heads ‘The Tony Blair Institute’ which employs more than 600 people. At least Gordon Brown had the decency to stick to his principles and seems to have lived those principles.

And before a whole load of people post GDP growth etc under the Blair years consider the impact that the world economy has had in that time. Personally I was the richest I ever was under Blair - he was cautious on taxation and I even received child benefit despite being a high earner. No one considered if this was fair under Labour - but was one of the first things to go under the Tory coalition. Maybe had Labour considered this years before it wouldn’t have been necessary to penalise the less well off or limit that benefit to 2 children. They could have introduced that change and lost no votes. No Labour administration at the time wanted to or even attempted to make ‘the rich pay’. There were many, many missed opportunities.

My point is this - scrutiny is now more important than ever as decisions are taken that affect all parts of society. Women’s rights being a key issue. Moving forward and regardless of your politics, be that person who speaks up and continues applying the same pressure for transparency and accountability as was demanded of the last administration. Labour has one chance to get this right before they lose momentum and before the county lurches to the right again.

OP posts:
4thJuly2024 · 05/07/2024 22:13

Leniriefenstahl · 05/07/2024 12:05

Posters are already scrutinising labour and saying they’ll only last 4-5 years.
Why do they only have one chance when the Tories had multiple and constantly fucked up ?

Because they weren't actually voted in, very few people wanted them, just the other votes were spread around, because people couldn't get behind the Tories.

They'll make things bad enough in 4/5 years that people will want them out, badly.

this is the joy of FPTP 🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

TheHateIsNotGood · 05/07/2024 22:13

Yep - will do. Didn't vote Labour myself (but would have if they had half a chance of ousting Buffo) but I do eagerly await some significant policy/legal announcements within a week.

Meanwhile - let the people rejoice....

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 22:17

Julian Jessop?

The "independent economist" who writes for the Spectator and is a former IEA Chief Economist?

Yeah, and I can see exactly why a right-wing Thatcherite can't see anything wrong with Liz Truss's economic policy.

🙄

Calamitousness · 05/07/2024 22:20

I can actually think for myself and don’t need a poster on MN to ‘remind’ me to do anything. YABVU and patronising.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:21

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 21:47

I'm sorry you are showing your ignorance.

Every DC got a CTF. You didn't have to 'take it up'. So WC families got them just the same as the MC. But they were aimed at everyone which is the point.

And again the same as Children's centres that was the point of them that MC families went there too that's what made them work. But again it's nonsense to say they didn't reach WC/target families. I used to work at one. The average person has no idea of the outreach work we did and additional services beyond regular groups. When these were cut it was devastating for those families.

I’m really not. The CTF was designed (and the idea sold to the public) as a mechanism to encourage families to add to it. I know every child got one. My kids got one. I added to it. The govt spent £2bn on the scheme.

Don’t take my word for it, read the NAO report on it.

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/investigation-into-child-trust-funds/

Do I think the money would’ve been better spent on ensuring that the future of sure start centres in economically deprived areas was secure? I certainly do.

Investigation into Child Trust Funds - NAO report

This report looks at tax-free savings accounts for 6.3 million children born between 2002 and 2011, into which the government paid £2bn.

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/investigation-into-child-trust-funds

OP posts:
blacksax · 05/07/2024 22:21

Dearest @Axelfoleyreturns Speaking as someone who is currently on their 15th Prime Minister, I don't think there's an awful lot you can tell me that I don't already know, to be honest.

We all know that the grass isn't always greener, but sometimes you have to move your stock out of a field full of shit and into a new pasture for a while.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:27

blacksax · 05/07/2024 22:21

Dearest @Axelfoleyreturns Speaking as someone who is currently on their 15th Prime Minister, I don't think there's an awful lot you can tell me that I don't already know, to be honest.

We all know that the grass isn't always greener, but sometimes you have to move your stock out of a field full of shit and into a new pasture for a while.

😂 nicely put. There have been 14 PM’s in my lifetime btw - I have memories of 12 of them.

OP posts:
TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 22:35

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:11

I guess because the dentists weren’t minded to lobby for it? It is quite different to GP contract situation where the market for private services was not so bouyant. The dentistry contract change also coincided with the rise in demand for cosmetic dentistry creating a perfect storm. Newly qualified dentists just don’t have the means to set up an NHS practice but certainly would be an idea for the new govt to look at - the provision of low-cost funding to set up an NHS practice would be one.

Are you suggesting that the Tory government was right to ignore the growing problems with the contract because dentists themselves weren't lobbying for changes to it? You're suggesting that the Tories have behaved impeccably in ignoring the increasingly deafening pleas to deal with the lack of access to NHS dentistry services because those pleas came from patients and not from dentists themselves.
The policy introduced in 2006 wasn't great, but the problems with it have steadily increased over the 18 years it has been in place. Blaming Labour for the entirety of the problems whilst ignoring the missed opportunities of 14 years of Tory rule doesn't indicate a well-reasoned argument.

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 22:42

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 22:17

Julian Jessop?

The "independent economist" who writes for the Spectator and is a former IEA Chief Economist?

Yeah, and I can see exactly why a right-wing Thatcherite can't see anything wrong with Liz Truss's economic policy.

🙄

Oh well, every analyst with a point of view will have to be discounted then. Will make life easier I suppose: we can ignore every report from every think tank, academic, NGO and charity.

QueenOfHiraeth · 05/07/2024 22:46

I don't think life will be easy for Labour as we live in an era of expecting instant gratification.

I suspect it will be a very short time before people realise they don't feel better off, schools and the NHS aren't like Rolls-Royces and migration is continuing so they start griping because everyone expects their needs to be met first and the media will turn.
I'm old enough to remember and to have enjoyed Saturday Night Live and Spitting Image but their viciousness was clever and well targeted whereas now generalised bile seems to be accepted from mainstream media and celebrities who have no political relevance and it is often aimed at individual politicians rather than the policies or the parties. I look forward to seeing how the likes of Carol Vorderman, Gary Linaker, etc will deal with that

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:48

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 22:35

Are you suggesting that the Tory government was right to ignore the growing problems with the contract because dentists themselves weren't lobbying for changes to it? You're suggesting that the Tories have behaved impeccably in ignoring the increasingly deafening pleas to deal with the lack of access to NHS dentistry services because those pleas came from patients and not from dentists themselves.
The policy introduced in 2006 wasn't great, but the problems with it have steadily increased over the 18 years it has been in place. Blaming Labour for the entirety of the problems whilst ignoring the missed opportunities of 14 years of Tory rule doesn't indicate a well-reasoned argument.

I’m absolutely not wearing rose tinted specs about the Tory govt, but neither do I think they are to blame for all of the ills in the country today. I’m actually more concerned about the possibility of more Reform MP’s tbh.

The tories have had 14 years of rule following the banking crisis, a pandemic and an unexpected war in Europe - it isn’t comparable to the 13 years of the Labour rule during an economic boom after which the nation’s coffers were left bare. I doubt I’m alone in being disappointed with the legacy Blair left for the country. There was much hope and much patience at the time for change. I’m simply pointing out that there is not much patience left in the country and if we are to avoid the far right wing scourge sweeping Europe we have to keep up the same level of scrutiny and pressure.

OP posts:
Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:50

QueenOfHiraeth · 05/07/2024 22:46

I don't think life will be easy for Labour as we live in an era of expecting instant gratification.

I suspect it will be a very short time before people realise they don't feel better off, schools and the NHS aren't like Rolls-Royces and migration is continuing so they start griping because everyone expects their needs to be met first and the media will turn.
I'm old enough to remember and to have enjoyed Saturday Night Live and Spitting Image but their viciousness was clever and well targeted whereas now generalised bile seems to be accepted from mainstream media and celebrities who have no political relevance and it is often aimed at individual politicians rather than the policies or the parties. I look forward to seeing how the likes of Carol Vorderman, Gary Linaker, etc will deal with that

💯 this.

OP posts:
blacksax · 05/07/2024 22:51

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:27

😂 nicely put. There have been 14 PM’s in my lifetime btw - I have memories of 12 of them.

🙂I can remember all but the first two as well. I also remember having lively debates with my family round the dining table about whether or not we should join the Common Market. And here we are a few years after having left again.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:54

blacksax · 05/07/2024 22:51

🙂I can remember all but the first two as well. I also remember having lively debates with my family round the dining table about whether or not we should join the Common Market. And here we are a few years after having left again.

Ah my lovely late FIL was still vociferous about us having joined the common market…even after the nation had voted for Brexit.

OP posts:
TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 22:56

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 22:42

Oh well, every analyst with a point of view will have to be discounted then. Will make life easier I suppose: we can ignore every report from every think tank, academic, NGO and charity.

Oh dear! There's no need to be flouncing off over it!

It isn't hard to find analysts with less biased agendas or viewpoints and it is unfortunate that you didn't consider that to be important when looking for sources to counter someone's argument.

FWIW, your Fullfact link was better. It rather diluted your point, but it was a less-biased analysis.

saoirse31 · 05/07/2024 23:08

Ofgs, every govt is scrutinised, can't see why a Labour government would be any different. What a real sour grapes post disguised as a concerned rant! After living through Johnson, Truss and Sunak I do hope you manage to sleep well tonight and not stay awake worrying about the quality of a Labour government.

Acapulco12 · 05/07/2024 23:12

Stripesandchecks543 · 05/07/2024 12:47

Scrutiny should be high whichever government is in power.

At least Keir Starler will be keen to establish an independent civil service and a properly resourced justice system which the last administration decimated.

What do you mean he should establish an independent civil service? The civil service has already been established and is very much independent.

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 23:14

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:48

I’m absolutely not wearing rose tinted specs about the Tory govt, but neither do I think they are to blame for all of the ills in the country today. I’m actually more concerned about the possibility of more Reform MP’s tbh.

The tories have had 14 years of rule following the banking crisis, a pandemic and an unexpected war in Europe - it isn’t comparable to the 13 years of the Labour rule during an economic boom after which the nation’s coffers were left bare. I doubt I’m alone in being disappointed with the legacy Blair left for the country. There was much hope and much patience at the time for change. I’m simply pointing out that there is not much patience left in the country and if we are to avoid the far right wing scourge sweeping Europe we have to keep up the same level of scrutiny and pressure.

it isn’t comparable to the 13 years of the Labour rule during an economic boom after which the nation’s coffers were left bare.

I assume the banking crisis you are referring to is the world-wide economic crash of 2008, caused by US financial institutions . But it would be inconvenient to think that might have made things difficult for Labour as well as the Tories.

I’m simply pointing out that there is not much patience left in the country and if we are to avoid the far right wing scourge sweeping Europe we have to keep up the same level of scrutiny and pressure. If that was genuinely your motivation for posting, I don't think it was necessary. I would hope there would be much more scrutiny and pressure than there has been over the last 14 years as it has been shockingly lacking. And given the right-wing leaning tendencies of the vast majority of the UK's press, I have no doubt there will be.

As I said in my first post on this thread Many, many, years of following the political ins and outs of the UK tells me that the Labour Party are always more thoroughly scrutinised and held to account more strictly than the Conservatives. Always.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 23:16

Acapulco12 · 05/07/2024 23:12

What do you mean he should establish an independent civil service? The civil service has already been established and is very much independent.

Tbf the BBC reported on this earlier and I was also confused because it was my belief that the CS is supposed to be impartial. Maybe Sue Gray knows something we don’t? Or maybe Sue Gray is suggesting something to deliberately provoke Simon Case because (according to Laura K on the BBC) there is no love lost between them and she is hoping to disarm his power?

OP posts:
Acapulco12 · 06/07/2024 00:06

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 23:16

Tbf the BBC reported on this earlier and I was also confused because it was my belief that the CS is supposed to be impartial. Maybe Sue Gray knows something we don’t? Or maybe Sue Gray is suggesting something to deliberately provoke Simon Case because (according to Laura K on the BBC) there is no love lost between them and she is hoping to disarm his power?

It is impartial!! It works really hard at maintaining its impartiality.

I’m a civil servant and was in the office today, and everyone was being very professional and the senior managers in our department were talking about the huge importance of us staying impartial, particularly on big political occasions like this.

Do you mind linking to the BBC report on this please? I’ll try and find it too.

ll09sm · 06/07/2024 00:08

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:55

No it doesn’t.

Loser 😂😂😂

Your mum is telling you it’s past your bedtime. Even though it’s not a school night.

GoogleWhacking · 06/07/2024 00:10

So literally no scrutiny then??

Acapulco12 · 06/07/2024 00:18

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 23:16

Tbf the BBC reported on this earlier and I was also confused because it was my belief that the CS is supposed to be impartial. Maybe Sue Gray knows something we don’t? Or maybe Sue Gray is suggesting something to deliberately provoke Simon Case because (according to Laura K on the BBC) there is no love lost between them and she is hoping to disarm his power?

This really winds me up 🙄🙄 we’ve just had over a decade of political in-fighting - why do we have to put up with Civil Service in-fighting too? I’m sure it happens - of course it does - but does it have to be so bloody public? It makes both Sue Gray and Simon Case look weak and unprofessional and it makes the whole Civil Service look bad too.

rumnraisins · 06/07/2024 01:04

It won’t happen.

Blair inherited a strong economy and run up the national debt to a ridiculous degree. Everyone loves the spending spree.

Tories got into power and continue down the same track. They’re rightly blamed for the mess.

We’re now hearing about Labour ‘inheriting’ the mess (and probably will be for the next 5 years), I don’t remember the media saying the same when Tory/Lib Dems got into power.

The media will not scrutinise Labour in the same way.

Im not a fan of the Tories, btw.

Lopine · 06/07/2024 03:27

ll09sm · 06/07/2024 00:08

Your mum is telling you it’s past your bedtime. Even though it’s not a school night.

Really, trying to minimise the disastrous Truss budget. People aren’t stupid.

You are a shill. Or else immensely thick.

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